Senna vs. Schumacher - The debate continues

[Graham Ross]

It is true that we'll never know who was better. Each one of us forms an opinion and because of that it is important to highlight the fact that Michael Schumacher had preferential treatement not enjoyed by any other driver giving him an unfair advantnage that contributed to his record number of wins and championships.
When a whole team is working for you including your team-mate, that is an unfair advantage over the rest as well as when comparing with Senna or any other driver for that matter.

[Julian Mayo]

how good could Jochen Rindt been with Schueys advantages?

[Graham Ross]

For starters, had he lived till 36

[expo]

Ayrton Senna had the ability to achieve everything only with his mindpower. he could go further and further to dimensions that a Michael Schumacher never will be able to achieve. Ayrton lived for the competition and he would have busted Schumacher a#% if he wouldn't died in that F.... Race in Imola.
Its hard to debate with people who dont even seen him racing, but people who once seen this magnificant guy driving a racecar know what kind of supernatural beeing Ayrton Senna was. Its not fair that he died and this debate is embarassing too. Who the f... is comparing Senna with Schumacher, Senna is Hellfire and Schumacher is a Candlelight.

[Don Lindsay]

Ayrton Senna's star shone the brightest in a sky full of stars, and still does years after his death. Michael Schumacher's star shines so bright thanks to the fact that his competition is frankly "DULL". MS will be recorded as the best F1 has ever seen, however, those of us lucky enough to have watched them both race can think otherwise!

[K-D]

I was never a fan of Senna "the man" - I am fully aware of how god Senna "The driver" was. However all great F1 drivers were and are great against the opposition they face. We can not hold against a driver, whom he is battling with, they race when they race, and achieve against those.

The idea that you can compare drivers, and rate them across the times they raced, I completely disagree with.

I do believe that a select group of drivers are "greatest" - And whom they are is an argument I expect to continue forever.

Ayrton Senna was one of the great ones.

Michael Schumacher is one of the great ones.

[F1greyhound]

This topic is almost totally dominated by 3 facts:

1. Ayrton Senna died pretty long ago(11 years), and rightfully remembered as a great hero

2. Michael Schumacher is alive, the best for a long time and polarizing people

3. People are almost unable to realistically rate drivers anyway, looks all so easy in TV...

In my opinion they both achieved great things against very decent opposition, and even in lesser material. They are really close to call. Usually I wouldnt make the effort to rate any of them "higher", but in order to answer the question I have always liked SENNA, PROST and MANSELL as the greatest from the era just before Michael. And what makes Michael so special, is that he actually combines the driving abilities of these 3 in just 1 personality. The natural feeling for the car of Ayrton, the racing brain of Alain plus the lion-heart noncompromising attitude of Nigel. And I think its this complexity which may polarize many people.

By the way, there are quite a few fantastic drivers in F1 today and even some champions have not been rated high enough, especially Damon Hill. He was an absolute character, coming at 19 from motorbikes to cars and still becoming F1 champ. And some of his drives were really awesome.

[Julian Mayo]

f1g, if u thro in The Great Fangio, Ascari, Jim Clarke, Jack Brabham, Jackie Stewart and Jochen Rindt, I might even Start to agree

[RE30B#16]

For me Schumacher is just one step higher than Senna, because of his capacity to transform a team, first Benetton then Ferrari, which Senna never did and never had the force and desire to do. MS critics to the team are constructive where AS were destructive.

I don't know what you are talking about with this remark. The Benetton Team [formerly Toleman] first started it's accent with Derek Warwick in the early 80's, but did not get on the podium until they hire one Ayrton Senna da Silva! He became a consistent spoiler that year [1994] and was solen by Lotus whereupon he did what Mansell and deAngelis couldn't do, and made the team a consistent winner, developing the car, and the engines he had to work with [Renault and Honda].

When he left the team in 1988, Honda basically went with him to McLaren, and his season in 1988 is legendary. Prost could not stand the fact that Senna was able to inspire more loyalty within the team and was generally better at setting up the car and knowing how to communicate with the designers to produce a car tailored to his driving style. He was a title contender in every year in which he competed from 1985 until his death in 1994. Even Schumacher said himself that Senna most certainly would have won the title had he lived. The fact that Schumacher came one curve and 2 points away from losing the 1994 title to Damon Hill that year underscores this point.

But let's get back to team development. Benetton was further developed by a couple other guys who weren't shabby racers themselves. I'm talking about Gerhard Berger, Alessandro Nannini, Thierry Boutsen, and Nelson Piquet. By the time Schumacher arrived [during the Piquet period], Rory Byrne and Ross Brawn already knew how to produce a winning car. They need a young, motivated driver to complement their growing technical strength. In a Senna-esque coup-d'etat, Flavio Briatore was able to lure Schumacher away from Jordan which arguably was also on the rise at the time no doubt because they had already produced several winning cars whereas Jordan was still in pursuit of their first team victory.

It obviously was a good fit. When Schuey left for Ferrari, who would follow him in a year? Ross Brawn and Rory Byrne! When the team wisely added Jean Todt to the equation, the die was cast. So effectively the current Ferrari and all of the ones Schumacher has driven since around 1997 have been Toleman/Benettons with a better engine and resources. Two areas in which the Benetton team was always challenged. Come to think of it, it is actually a great achievement that Briatore has gotten the Toleman/Benetton/Renault team back to that level.

next post...

Chrisluv

[Julian Mayo]

What he said

[Craig Tomalski]

Hate both with a passion.

But respect their achievements.

[RE30B#16]

Add this to my last post...

I've been watching this sport since 1969. Everyone watches a guy cross the finish line first in the Indianapolis 500 and think he is god, but in reality, he is on point of a huge team effort. Team Penske has more Indy victories than any one driver. So what does that mean? And throughout the history of the sport, you'll have a guy show up at the right time, in the right team and boom! Try these great winning combinations on for size:

Michael Schumacher/Ross Brawn/Rory Byrne,
Nelson Piquet/Bernie Ecclestone/Gordon Murray,
Alain Prost/Ron Dennis/John Barnard,
Alan Jones/Frank Williams/Patrick Head,
Gilles Villeneuve/Enzo Ferrari/Harvey Postelwaithe,
Niki Lauda/Enzo Ferrari/Mauro Forghieri,
James Hunt/Teddy Mayer/Tyler Alexander,
Ayrton Senna/Colin Chapman/Peter Ward,
Ayrton Senna/Ron Dennis/Gordon Murray,
Mario Andretti/Colin Chapman,
Emerson Fittipaldi/Colin Chapman,
Jim Clark/Colin Chapman,
Jackie Stewart/Ken Tyrell/Derek Gardner,
Nigel Mansell/Patrick Head/Adrian Newey,
Any team with Adrian Newey, Mo Nunn, Tony Cicale,

...I could go on, but I think you get the point.

I loved watching Senna. I've loved watching Schumacher. I love Formula 1.

Nuff' said!

[Julian Mayo]

You forgot Jack Brabham/Jack Brabham. And Jack Brabham/Jack Brabham
or were you too young ?

[RE30B#16]

You forgot Jack Brabham/Jack Brabham. And Jack Brabham/Jack Brabham
or were you too young ?

Yes, I was!

[N. Jones]

Can you compare Fangio to Michael? To Ayrton?

If not, then you can't compare Michael to Aytron...