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Glad to see we have graduated from nonsense to drivel.
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and craps like a duck, its a pretty sure bet it ain't no giraffe.. Ferrari engine, bridgestone tyres= yes Mr Todt, no Mr todt, carry your bags Mr Todt?

julian mayo wrote:Glad to see we have graduated from nonsense to drivel.
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and craps like a duck, its a pretty sure bet it ain't no giraffe.. Ferrari engine, bridgestone tyres= yes Mr Todt, no Mr todt, carry your bags Mr Todt?

Can youy try with an argument over accusations??

K-D wrote:

julian mayo wrote:Glad to see we have graduated from nonsense to drivel.
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and craps like a duck, its a pretty sure bet it ain't no giraffe.. Ferrari engine, bridgestone tyres= yes Mr Todt, no Mr todt, carry your bags Mr Todt?

Can youy try with an argument over accusations??

It is called freedom of speech, K-D. I am expressing my opinion. For the sake of that same freedom of speech, I do not take umbrage with you when you call my opinions nonsense and drivel.

julian mayo wrote:

K-D wrote:

julian mayo wrote:Glad to see we have graduated from nonsense to drivel.
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and craps like a duck, its a pretty sure bet it ain't no giraffe.. Ferrari engine, bridgestone tyres= yes Mr Todt, no Mr todt, carry your bags Mr Todt?

Can youy try with an argument over accusations??

It is called freedom of speech, K-D. I am expressing my opinion. For the sake of that same freedom of speech, I do not take umbrage with you when you call my opinions nonsense and drivel.

I completely agree with the idea of freedom of speech. And the fact that I disagree is an extention of that. However you, and JayVee continue to slam any team using Ferrari engines, taggging them as the B-team. I disagree, and explain why. You may have issues with my arguments, but if your postings of matters F1 boild down to childish fingerpointing. Your credability is shot, and any serious dsicussion with you is impossible.

K-D wrote:

julian mayo wrote:

K-D wrote:
Can youy try with an argument over accusations??

It is called freedom of speech, K-D. I am expressing my opinion. For the sake of that same freedom of speech, I do not take umbrage with you when you call my opinions nonsense and drivel.

I completely agree with the idea of freedom of speech. And the fact that I disagree is an extention of that. However you, and JayVee continue to slam any team using Ferrari engines, taggging them as the B-team. I disagree, and explain why. You may have issues with my arguments, but if your postings of matters F1 boild down to childish fingerpointing. Your credability is shot, and any serious dsicussion with you is impossible.

That is only your opinion K-D. As mine is mine.
I contend that a team running the same engine as Ferrari will be obliged to fulfil certain requirements when asked to. I also contend that Ferrari is CURRENTLY the most unethical, unsporting, unco-operative team in F1 who coul not give a tinkers cuss about the betterment of the sport, and that as they continue their slide that will only worsen. I find this very sad as I used to to be a staunch supporter of the once proud Prancing Horse.

K-D wrote:I actually argued my argument before you barged in. Your response is a spin of statements without anything but your own emotional values.

Really! This has nothing to do with emotion. I have nothing against Sauber or Red Bull but facts are facts and you can choose to ignore them but it is like putting your head in the sand. Ferrari had leverage over Sauber until this year and over Red Bull from next year, their drivers would not stand in the way of a Ferrari. Peter Sauber never went against Ferrari in any political decision until he knew he will not get engines from them.

The Toyota/Jordan is similar and if a Toyota is coming up to a Jordan it will be given special attention.

K-D wrote:Still looking for those "Force Majeure" Tyre rules are we - Yes, but I have been tied up with various projects, so have not been through everything yet. And can only spend evenings on this.

But why are you bothering ???? The FIA made the biggest backflip in recent memory even before going to appeal. They knew Mosley was way too wrong and they had to correct the situation.
This 'new evidence' is just a term used by the FIA to save face. There was no 'new evidence'

K-D wrote:Midland have signed on with the FIA sanctioned series today.

?Bernie Ecclestone was instrumental in bringing Midland to Formula 1 and from the very beginning (Midland owner) Alex Shnaider was supportive of his vision for the future,? said team boss Colin Kolles.

?We are happy and proud to be in at the beginning of this process which will shape Formula 1?s long term future.?

What kind of arguments will be used to explain how the Midland / Toyota relationships, is completely different from the alleged Saubr, Red Bull / Ferrari relationships???

What is this ?? This is just too defensive!

Facts are facts, a team being supplied an engine by another will make sure they maintain a good relationship.
The Sauber - Ferrari was as will be the Red Bull - Ferrari similar to the Jordan - Toyota relationship.

A Jordan/Red Bull is less likely to wreck a Toyota's/Ferrari's race than wreck a BAR's race.

Jordan signing with Bernie is expected. Now we have 3 super teams to race in F1. Read somewhere that Toyota aren't interested in renewing with Jordan then we may soon hear of a Ferrari - Jordan deal.
Then the Bambino series becomes complete.

K-D wrote:The implication that Sauber have, and Red Bull will be acting as the willing tools of Ferrari is a poor, arrogant view on independent businesses, that have and are investing seveal hundres of million dollars in the sport.

As I wrote. If Red Bull are the willing tools of Ferrari, why is there no such sinister motives in the Toyota / Jordan relationship?? It is a feeble attempt at painting Ferrari worse, an attempt to find cheap excuses for the utter dominance that ferrari have had the past 6 seasons.

If a poster want to argue the Sauber and Red Bull relationship, they should do better than the drivel we have seen sofar.

I am sure you understand how businesses work K-D, these independent businesses are in bed with Ferrari/Toyota and they will do them favours more than another team

Again K-D I can't understand why you are assuming anyone is thinking different of the Toyota/Jordan relationship. You are dreaming this up

What you call 'drivel' K-D is a 'no brainer' to anyone who understands a little bit on how businesses operate

That is only your opinion K-D. As mine is mine.
I contend that a team running the same engine as Ferrari will be obliged to fulfil certain requirements when asked to. I also contend that Ferrari is CURRENTLY the most unethical, unsporting, unco-operative team in F1 who coul not give a tinkers cuss about the betterment of the sport, and that as they continue their slide that will only worsen. I find this very sad as I used to to be a staunch supporter of the once proud Prancing Horse.

This is this first post where you make any form of arguments.

As you may expect, I disagree.

Really! This has nothing to do with emotion. I have nothing against Sauber or Red Bull but facts are facts and you can choose to ignore them but it is like putting your head in the sand. Ferrari had leverage over Sauber until this year and over Red Bull from next year, their drivers would not stand in the way of a Ferrari. Peter Sauber never went against Ferrari in any political decision until he knew he will not get engines from them.

It has all to do with emotion. Rather than paint with the broad brush, try what you call facts. What facts are facts??? That Saber was paying for engines?? I agree. That Sauber were at the beg and call by ferrari? I disagree. That Red Bull will buy engies from Ferrari?? I agree. That Red Bull will be a the beg and call by Ferrari in 2006?? I disagree.

The Toyota/Jordan is similar and if a Toyota is coming up to a Jordan it will be given special attention

It is similar in the sense that Jordan / Midland is paying for engines to Toyota. A Toyota driver gets no more or less help from a lapped Jordan / Midland driver, than any other lapped driver.

It really worries me that you expect Ferrari will not call Red Bull to heel when required.

But why are you bothering ???? The FIA made the biggest backflip in recent memory even before going to appeal. They knew Mosley was way too wrong and they had to correct the situation.
This 'new evidence' is just a term used by the FIA to save face. There was no 'new evidence'.

I am bothering because the rule was there to be used, but Michelin refused to use them.

No the FIA have not done a back-flip. It has nothing to do with being right or wrong, your refusal to blame the tire manufacturer for the USGP farce, cloud your judgement. Your dislike for Max Mosley cloud your judgement. You should read all the post by all the posters in regard the USGP farce, instead of sitting in your sandbox, throwing toys out.

The FIA have no need to save face, the only party with egg on their face is Michelin, who will be paying for this in several years to come, and not just fiscal.

For gawds sake please let none of us rehash the Indy fiasco. There is a GP coming up, let us all enjoy it. Good luck to everyone with their favourites, and picks.

What is this ?? This is just too defensive!

What does that mean??

Facts are facts, a team being supplied an engine by another will make sure they maintain a good relationship.

Yes that I have not disputed at any time. It is the continued insistence byt you and others, that a good relationship is replace with indenture.

The Sauber - Ferrari was as will be the Red Bull - Ferrari similar to the Jordan - Toyota relationship.

Yes a a supplier to a paying customer relationship. Nothing more, nothing less.

A Jordan/Red Bull is less likely to wreck a Toyota's/Ferrari's race than wreck a BAR's race

Utter and complete nonsense.

Jordan signing with Bernie is expected. Now we have 3 super teams to race in F1. Read somewhere that Toyota aren't interested in renewing with Jordan then we may soon hear of a Ferrari - Jordan deal.

Is there a meaning hidden somewhere here??

I think JV is referring to the bambino/indy series in 2008- a six car ch'ship watched by two drunks and a dog, while the rest of us drunks, dogs, n otherwise watch the mclarens-fords, williams- toyota,
minardi-vw,bar-bently,reynard-cosworth,honda-honda etc in F1