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Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:29 am
by Jim Watt
:bouncec: :bounce: :up: :super:
Kimi WINS! I still can't believe it!! By a POINT.

Raikkonen: SIX WINS! Means Ferrari DESERVE the Manufacturer's Title since they won Nine races to McLaren's Eight.

Ferrari. The red cars: 1, 2. the WDC. and the Manufacturer's Cup.

The Force was With Them.

Ron Dennis' [Darth Vader?]'s evil empire going down in flames!!

At last. I knew it was a perfect season. Kimi even managed a smile!!

:D :D :D

And I Have to say to Jay Vee: your man was also a champion on the podium: gracious and generous to his fierce competitor. In fact, he was rather more gracious than Felipe (who is beginning to grate on me. Like Rubino, he should admit that he's lucky to be in the car and remind himself that no one twisted his arm to sign the contract he signed, that is, the one that says he is a TEAM member, not the Team Leader.)

Ah, the Winter won't be so bad after all!

Jim Watt

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:43 am
by mlittle
Ed wrote:And thanks mlittle for helping with the coverage.
Much obliged, Ed; this was a great race and a great way to wrap up the 2007 season.

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:41 am
by Ed
The post race scrutineering found that the 2 BMW Sauber cars and the Williams car had fuel with temperatures that were below those allowed. However the stewards decided not to penalise the teams and the result stands.

Had the 3 cars been disqualified, Lewis Hamilton would have moved up to 4th and became the 2007 World Champion.

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:55 pm
by RE30B#16
Ed wrote:The post race scrutineering found that the 2 BMW Sauber cars and the Williams car had fuel with temperatures that were below those allowed. However the stewards decided not to penalise the teams and the result stands.

Had the 3 cars been disqualified, Lewis Hamilton would have moved up to 4th and became the 2007 World Champion.
My, my, my!!! :o

Well, I fully intended not to write any more posts, but after today's surprising WDC result, I had to give a big public congrats to Kimi Raikkonen for coming through ... finally!! He did everything he needed to do to win the WDC, and then the luck Gods smiled on him!! Even though I wanted (and even expected) Fernando Alonso to pull it off, I am very happy for Kimi (and Finland, home of some of the nicest people on Earth). I am also very happy for gkaytaz, jacfan, and all of the other Raikkonen supporters on this board. What a thrilling finish to one of the best F1 seasons in some time!!

:mrgreen: :clap: :up: :band: :party: :watcha:

Not to diminish Kimi's accomplishment, not seeing the race, I read an account of the race which described Fernando Alonso's performance as "uncharacteristically lackluster." Maybe he really has tired of Team McLaren along with some of the rest of you on this board. I fully expect an announcement about his imminent return to Renault next year. I cannot see him returning with McLaren with all of the crap happening there not to mention the strained relationship with Hambone. I am reminded of the 1981 WDC when Carlos Reutemann faded in the last race allowing Nelson Piquet to score his first title. Great stuff, indeed!!

In a day of upsets, the Boston Red Sox managed to upset the Cleveland Indians to go to the World Series!!! Unbelievable!!

Cheers, everyone!!

:cheers:

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:38 pm
by JayVee
Congratulations to Kimi Raikkonen on his 1st World Championship, if anyone other than Alonso has to win it then Raikkonen would have to be the one. He missed out a couple of times and even though Massa gave it to him and took it away from Alonso it was completely expected. (I even suspect Massa had his small mistake intentionally!)

Driver of the day to me was Massa, he was miles ahead of everyone else. Raikkonen seemed not to beleive he finally won it. Alonso was happy too, I think he was relieved the season is over. His crash in Japan cost him the title but also his luck/performance in Canada certainly contributed. But to finish 1 point behind in the Championship even though his relationship with his team completely broke down just after halfway in the season, he gets my vote for Driver of the Year.

Hamilton, well hard luck Snowy but to be very honest I think he deserved it. Had he won he would have even a bigger head. I think this may teach him a thing or two about modesty.

Hard luck to Webber, amazing that despite out-qualifying Coulthard he ends up behind him in the points. He seems to be like Raikkonen when it comes to luck/being hard on the car....

Nakajima wasn't too bad actually.

I think we will see a few seats changing and a few drivers dissapearing.

This will be a long off season.

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:03 pm
by gkaytaz
Congrats to Kimi. RE30B#16, thank you. I am not a Kimi supporter per se but I have to admit that he somehow deserved to win by hanging in there until the very last moment.

It has been an unexpected race to say the least. I was surprised to see Alonso drive in a very mild-mannered style. Looks like JayVee is correct in saying that Alonso has had it with the McLaren team. Hopefully he'll return to Renault and lift that team back up and into the competition. It'd be quite cool to see McLaren, Ferrari, BMW and Renault all compete for the title next year.

Now impressions of the race:
Kimi - Solid performance though I wonder if he'd have won the race if Massa hadn't been careless...
Felipe - If that little mistake was indeed intentional I must say he was extremely proficient. Real team player that fella.
Fernando - Just drove the car and finished the race. Guess he didn't have faith in pretty much anything anymore. Hope that'll change come next year.
Nico - Impressive. Perhaps even worthy of that other McLaren seat.
Robert and Nick - There wasn't much to do for both.
Lewis - First a mistake then a weird problem. Certainly it was not his day. That'll only help him mature. Next year he'll be real strong.
Jarno - Just another race...

The rest;
Kazuki looked quite comfy in the car. Will be a good addition to the F1 family.
Hondas did not disappoint, beating Aguri by a mere 2 points and getting beaten by STR? Wow! Talk about humiliation.
Pity Kovalainen crashed. It'd have been nice to see someone finish all the races in one season. Haven't had that lately except Schumi.
Webber is really unlucky. He's been much faster than Coulthard all year long but failed to beat him in the points. Fourteen retirements combined... RBR really need to work on reliability.

All said and done, it has been one of the better seasons. Perhaps not as great as early 80s but it was nice to watch.

Wish us all a better 2008 season... :cheers:

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:02 pm
by jacfan
Interesting race. I am not sure that Massa was not following team orders and letting Kimi win. Congrats to Kimi.
RE I am not a Kimi fan either. I was a Villeneuve fan and of course being an Aussie I love Mark but since he is not in contention for the WDC then I don't actually follow any one driver. It was a good close year.

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:38 pm
by Ed
McLaren intend to appeal the decision the stewards made at the Brazilian Grand Prix regarding Nico Rosberg's Williams car and the 2 BMW cars.

Sample fuels from their cars were found to be outside the allowed temperature however the stewards decided not to penalise them as they found no evidence of any intentional tampering with the fuel.

If the 3 cars are disqualified and Hamilton is bumped up to 4th then he will be the World Champion.

It isn't yet clear when the appeal will take place.

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:44 pm
by Snowy
Congratulations to Kimi, Well done and well deserved.

IMO Lewis didn't jeopadize the championship with the unwise attempted pass on Fernando, however McLaren s*at on any chance he had by changing to a three stop strategy after he was relegated to 18th place by a rather curious gearbox glitch. I would like to mention that Lewis' display of inexperience when compared to Alonso's opening gambits in the Spanish and Canadian GP's was worthy of more considered commentary. He is a racing driver and loves overtaking and never ever shys away from it, he and Fernando share that quality.

It's rather irrelevant and totally gratuitous of me to mention that Lewis qualified on the front row with more fuel than any of his championship rivals. But I also consider it offensive to suggest that Lewis wittingly impeded Kimi during that qualifying session.

Lewis fought a brave and fearless campaign in the face of great adversity on and off track. He is at least the second best driver of 2007 and bested his team mate, leading over a third as many laps and achieving two thirds as many pole positions.

It was a great season, I can't wait for 2008 and with a moderate amount of stability in the regulations it is quite possible that BMW, Toyota, Red Bull and (dare I say it?) Honda might well enter into the quest for championship glory. :D

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:00 pm
by Snowy
Oh and I make no apology for selecting Lewis Hamilton as driver of the day. :D His overtaking was manuvres were outstanding and particularly sensational when considered in the light of the fact that he had to finish the race, which he did. It just goes to prove that it is possible to overtake in F1, it just takes a driver with enough skill to do it. Come on the rest of you get your act together! :wink:

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:55 pm
by The Conduit
Until the Maximus Madness makes his pronouncement I make no comment, except to say the Hambone BLEW IT AWAY.
Mm Alonso, then pout adds drag to the vehicle.
I would comprehend if M Webber slashed his wrists.
DC, give a fellow your seat to enhance the 2008 season, a certain female champ car driver comes to mind.
Out qualified how many times DC??????
Sorry.how many????????????
Embarrased DC?.I thought you were the real thing years ago..stop taking the money, and give the seat to someone who WILL drive at ten tenths for a lap or two. Give Ralf a cuddle and walk off into the sunset arm in arm with him :roll:

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:11 am
by gkaytaz
I don't think any court will pick up on that appeal... After all the stewards chose not to penalize Hamilton for the wet tyre violation lest the outcome of the championship be affected. It was the very same reason why they have decided to let those three cars with questionable fuel temperature off the hook. It'd be very controversial if they were disqualified and Hamilton declared champion. I think the championship standings will remain as is.

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:29 am
by Jim Watt
:cheers: Well, chaps (and lassies), I've had time to look at the race again in a somewhat less excited frame of mind. And I have to say I am puzzled, indeed, by Lewis's sudden swerving and braking --and even more by the agonizingly slow excursion off the course and into the run off. The coverage I taped (Speed TV) changes cameras in the middle of this incident so even watching it in slo-mo is hardly conclusive. It is easy to see that Lewis slowed enough in turn one (probably because of Raikkonen tucking in behind Felipe) for Fernando to make a good run on him, which he did in clear and fair fashion.

But once Alonso got in front, both McLarens were in the middle of the racing line and both weaved a little one way and then the other. It looks to me like supporters of Alonso will say he had to take the line he did and Lewis just lost it, but I think, had the cars been reversed, the general opinion on this discussion group would have been that Big Headed Lewis blocked Fernando, forcing him to lock up his breaks! :duel:

So this is one of those controversies I suspect we'll soon just have to get used to! :roll:

And while we're on that topic, [never ending and all contending versions of events] can you imagine the outrage if Alonso's car had suffered that mystery slowing down that Lewis did??!! 8)

As to Alonso's so called less than inspired performance, I can't believe that he just gave up. After all, if he had passed Kimi, given Lewis's predicament, he'd have at least TIED him for points, losing only because Kimi would have more firsts. And had he been able to pass Kimi, we KNOW he'd have eaten little Felipe alive! So he couldn't have given up or been slowed by a Pout as one of his detractors suggested.

No. It must have been a mistake in the McLaren set-up. As we saw on Saturday, the four cars were only separated by a whisker and for most of the week end the Macs were faster in the straight line than the red cars. Since it was so hot on Sunday, I can only guess that Ferrari guessed right on the set up and McLaren was just a shade off.

I've not read the race reports yet, so I don't know what Hamilton had to say about his troubles, but no one can say they have ever seen (or ever likely WILL see!) a rookie season anything like his! This is a brilliant driver with a front running team and it won't be long before he takes the WDC. :up:

If in fact Alonso leaves (which Ron Dennis would be mad not to make happen!) then McLaren can begin to race like Ferrari and Renault and BMW/Sauber and every other contending Manufacturer, that is with a TEAM STRATEGY (no team orders, of course :wink::wink:), one that insures maximum points and supports the driver with the most points in the WDC. Ferrari never made any secret of this once Felipe had been eliminated; nor does it smack of bad sportsmanship. Felipe, of course, like little Reubens, tries to pretend he's on the same level as Fernando, Kimi and Lewis. Funny he somehow lacks the points.

It's all very well to chatter on about letting your drivers race one another and insuring they get fair treatment. But you tell the stockholders why you lost both the Manufacturers' AND the WDC to a disorganized and uncharacteristically vulnerable Fiat subsidary!

Next year will be SO MUCH Harder. There will be a fast Renault (with a two time WDC leading the team again!) and an even faster BMW/Sauber; who knows, maybe even Toyota will finally get serious. And there will be the reigning WDC in another fast red car with his side-kick and back up from Brazil there to deal with challengers. What I'm saying is you don't get many chances to take the WDC and the manufacturer's cup, so you had better make the most of it when you do. McLaren managed to make the least. :evil:

And Honda??? I don't know what to think. I'd cheer if they brought Jense to McLaren just so he'd have a chance to drive a race car, but with his bad luck (which makes Kimi's look like a mild cold!!), I think he'd probably inherit a McLaren like last year's model!!

I feel very good about the apparent return of the Williams team; I hope they move into the top five next year.

And now to close this very long post with some historical perspective:

In 2004 WDC Michael Schumacher [Ferrari] won 13 of the 18 races; in 2005 Fernando [Renault] won 7 and Kimi [McLaren] won 6 of the 17 races (Michael "won" one, but that doesn't count since it was the Indianapolis parade lapping event); in 2006, Fernando [Renault] won 8 and Michael Schumacher [Ferrari] won 7 of 17 races and this year, best one yet in my book: Kimi [Ferrari] won 6, Lewis and Fernando [McLaren] 4 each and Felipe won 3 of 17 races.

The closeness of the points race is, of course, in the best interests of FIA to keep their ratings up. But it is still ridiculous to have a points system that would allow someone with four wins to take the title from someone with six. If instead of 10 points for a win and 8 for a second, FIA awarded 20 for a win and 8 for a second I believe they would go a long way to fixing the so-called 'overtaking' problem!!

Thanks again to you all and :up: to Jay Vee and Snowy; better luck next year!

:cheers: Jim Watt

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:00 am
by Ed
McLaren have officially filed for appealing the Brazilian Grand Prix result. A statement issued by the team read:

The Vodafone McLaren Mercedes team confirms that it has, via its UK governing body, the MSA, filed a notice of appeal to the FIA’s International Court of Appeal against the decision not to exclude cars 09, 10, 16 and 17 from the result of the 2007 Brazilian Grand Prix.

The Rules of the FIA International Court of Appeal allow a team only a short period in which to file a notice of appeal and McLaren has complied with that. The team has taken the view, from the information that we currently have available that there was non-compliance with the Regulations. The team believes that the FIA has, in written clarification of the Technical Regulations and in its minutes of two Formula 1 Team Manager meetings, made clear how it would interpret and manage the Regulations and Procedures associated with the control of fuel temperatures. This process was followed in the normal manner by the FIA Technical Delegate following the Brazilian Grand Prix and the irregularities were reported by him to the Stewards of the meeting. Consequently the team does not understand the justification as described in the decision published late on Sunday evening.

The significance of this matter and its timing is, of course, regrettable. The team wishes to win races and Championships on the track. However, if there has been an irregularity, which is not the fault of the team, we feel that the matter must be properly examined to ensure that the rules are applied. This is something that we believe the FIA would fully support and would wish to be seen to have done.

Vodafone McLaren Mercedes wishes to stress, however, that it does not question the integrity of either the BMW or Williams teams. We know, without even enquiring, that neither team would have sought to achieve a performance advantage by such an irregularity and that the situation could only have arisen as the consequence of an operational error within the team on the day.

Ultimately we feel that the FIA should determine whether an irregularity occurred or not, and the team will fully respect the process and any decision that is ultimately given

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:26 pm
by jacfan
Any news on the appeal?