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A naive question:

Why is it that all those with sign in names starting with K are Ferrari fans ?

Is there 7 of them

Jayvee, maybe thats what the bedroom thing is to do with?

Even Schumacher fans need helpers

JayVee wrote:Even Schumacher fans need helpers

Says who

N i hope ur not talking abt that twit Ralf

BlinkyBill wrote:Jayvee, maybe thats what the bedroom thing is to do with?

You're a crackup BB!!
Nah, they've probably got a small network of pc's going so they can all reply simultaneously. Need to have some seroius firepower to take on the queen after all...

Well hello again party animals how's business?
Going back in time a bit, what have you got against castle dwelling danish chaps Julian Mayo? I'd be really hurt if I was the aforementioned scandinavian, anyway...
I'll just scupper a couple vicious rumors first:

I don't ware glasses, not even red ones.

I'm not scared of my own laptop screen.

Or to be labeled naive by some bum, yes I know it was rude and I apologize. I'm sorry JayVee. However, don't mistake this apology as groveling a la Julian Mayo.

My bedroom is far from boring and it's better than being stuck up Alonso's a-hole (I jest).

No I am not K-D.

I am a singular human being, without multiple personality disorder.

I use one little mac, not a network of PCs.

And the Ferrari fan k thing is just a coincidence, ask David Ike if you don't believe me and anyway I'm more of a Michael fan than a tiffosi.

Right, now that's all over and done with I shall (wait for it) address (shock, horror!) one of the queens quotes. I have to say first though that you didn't really answer my question JayVee, do you seriously believe all of those quotes? Well here's a reply anyway.

JayVee "Why does Michael pick and choose his team mates are?"

Once upon a time, in a lavish detached house somewhere near lake geneva, in the middle of the night, the greatest Formula One driver in the history of planet earth wakes up, a picture of cold sweat and realization he sits bolt upright in bed.

"What are doing Michael?" Slurs his wife half asleep.

"I've got it!" Declares Michael "I've actually got it! I know who I want to whip in the second car this season".

With a roll of the eyes his wife turns over and tries to go back to sleep. This kind of megalomaniac obsession is nothing new to her, in fact it's the reason they've been married for the last x amount of years. Scrambling for the phone in the dark Michael instinctively hits the short cut key that puts him straight through to Jean Todt's bedside phone.

"Hello Jean?" Michael cannot conceal his urgency.

"....errrrmerde..." comes the crackled response from the other end.

"WAKE UP YOU GOOD FOR NOTHING FRENCH S*** AND LISTEN TO WHAT YOUR TEAM LEADER HAS TO SAY" barks Michael.

"Sorry Michael I'm sorry, I'm listening, please don't sack me" Jean hugs the duvet for comfort.

Michael recomposes himself and continues "Listen I've got it, I know who's gonna be in visually identical but ultimately inferior second car...".

"Who Michael? Tell me who?" Jean actually sounds awake now.

"Filipe Massa. That's who Jean" Says Michael with an undeniable air of authority.

"Oh Michael, your unquestionably right, you lead this team, you design and make the car in your favor and not only that but you decide who Mr Di Montizemilo should employ. How can I ever repay you?" Jean is close close to tears.

"Get out of bed, f*** off to brazil and get his signature on a piece of paper before I fire your useless a*** got it?" Says Michael firmly "AND DON'T SCREW IT UP LIKE YOU DID IN AUSTRIA, we don't want another PR nightmare", and with that Michael puts down the phone, leans over to his wife and says:

"I can't sleep love, I'm gonna go downstairs and put the finishing touches 1:4 model of the 248, and maybe pop it in the wind tunnel, see you in a bit".

So let's believe that nonsense for moment and say that Michael Schumacher chose Massa as his team mate. Let's believe that Jean Todt didn't have a say in the matter. Lets also believe that Nicolas Todt (Jeans' son) who happens to manage Massa didn't have anything to do with it either, and that Massa's drive for Sauber had nothing to do with the fact that Ferrari supplied engines to the Swiss team, and this was not part a grooming exercise engineered by Jean Todt who may I remind you had nothing to do with Massa's appointment to ferrari. Just remember it's all down to Michael Schumacher because he picks his team mates.

Seriously though how many team mates do you reckon Michael Schumacher has had? How many can you name from memory? Out of those how many do you think Michael has actually chosen? I reckon he may have been consulted on at most four, but more likely two or three. That's not even half of them and I'm not saying he chose them either. With regards to Massa I think it's more likely that Todt asked Michael to give his impending team mate some lessons so him and his son wouldn't look like idiots. I reckon Todt said:

"Look Michael, my son needs something impressive on his CV, so we're gonna get Massa in a Ferrari for a season, do you have any objections?"

Michael replies "No not really, apart from the fact he can't drive..."

Todt says "Your right.... we'll take him out the Swiss machine for a season, that balled blokes getting grumpy anyway, we'll give him a testing role with us and you can teach him how to drive. Then we'll pop him back over to Hinwall where he can reacclimatize to racing, and practice what he's learned, before replacing that non-ball-playing git in the second car. Oh I wish Eddie was still around... things were much more simple and fun when he was here".

Well something like that anyway. For sure (one of my favorite F1 phrases) Massa's no Coulthard, who's no Alonso, who's no Michael but se la vie, we don't always get what we want even if that is just a subservient number two with the ability to win races when the maestro can't be bothered. What is one to do?

And with some of that in mind, I turn to testing. Place yourself in Ross Brawn's shoes. There he is, gear box problems to worry about, who's feedback do you think will be more useful to Byrne et all back at Maranello? The all conquering seven times master of the universe, or the kid who only learned to hold the steering wheel straight after the all mighty showed him how? Of course Michael's gonna get more time, he's had more experience than any other driver on the grid, and won more than any driver in F1 history. Anyway that's it for now, I've got a life to return to. Ciao.

(gloves off, cracking knuckles)

Alright K, you're on.
Can I say though that that was one fantastic piece of literary discussion! Well spoken, and excellently debated.

K wrote: Todt says "Your right.... we'll take him out the Swiss machine for a season, that balled blokes getting grumpy anyway, we'll give him a testing role with us and you can teach him how to drive. Then we'll pop him back over to Hinwall where he can reacclimatize to racing, and practice what he's learned, before replacing that non-ball-playing git in the second car. Oh I wish Eddie was still around... things were much more simple and fun when he was here".

I'm not the one that said MS picked FM, but your statement is rather obvious in stating that he IS a number 2. Which also means that MS is getting preferential treatment. I think that it would not have really mattered WHAT MS said in response to JT, but the options that JT gave him were all going to suit him anyway, don't you think?

Seriously, do you think he would have said yes if JT was offering up KR or FA?

K wrote: And with some of that in mind, I turn to testing. Place yourself in Ross Brawn's shoes. There he is, gear box problems to worry about, who's feedback do you think will be more useful to Byrne et all back at Maranello? The all conquering seven times master of the universe, or the kid who only learned to hold the steering wheel straight after the all mighty showed him how? Of course Michael's gonna get more time, he's had more experience than any other driver on the grid, and won more than any driver in F1 history. Anyway that's it for now, I've got a life to return to. Ciao.

Of course MS's feedback would be better. But I think the gist of what the others are saying is that FM is going to be trodding along behind during all the races because he doesn't get to spend enough time in the new car. Do Ferrari EXPECT him to have no chance at all at winning races, or driving the car nearly as good as MS?

I'll agree that testing a new engine with a proven car is a good idea for comparative purposes, but there is also the notion of getting a second opinion on matters, especially if the other one is coming from a fresh face with new ideas.

Anyway, breathlessly awaiting another response like that one, even if it detracts from your life for only a short time.

Ah hem

What if Farrari are gonna run a restricted V10 just to cover their options. They might just swipe the first race from under Renault's nose?

K wrote:So let's believe .... for moment and say that Michael Schumacher chose Massa as his team mate. Let's believe that Jean Todt didn't have a say in the matter. Lets also believe that Nicolas Todt (Jeans' son) who happens to manage Massa didn't have anything to do with it either, and that Massa's drive for Sauber had nothing to do with the fact that Ferrari supplied engines to the Swiss team, and this was not part a grooming exercise engineered by Jean Todt who may I remind you had nothing to do with Massa's appointment to ferrari. Just remember it's all down to Michael Schumacher because he picks his team mates.

Ok! I can do that. Dont find it hard at all!!

tld wrote: ..... he IS a number 2. Which also means that MS is getting preferential treatment ........

No it doesn't. If MS's teammate is not his equal then MS doesn't need preferential treatment, he is still going to win. If MS's teammate is his equal then if they have the best car probably one of them will win, but not without his teammate having taken points off him during the year, and thus compromising his chances.

The fact is that if you already have the best driver in your team (or one of the best), then your chances of winning the world championship are diminished if you have a second driver who is going to compete with them. It is a Ferrari policy to choose a second driver who will not compete with MS, not an MS policy, and ... gosh ... how many world championships have Ferrari won ? ... 14! So you are left with some sort of moral argument against how they go about their work, and we could now get into a moral equivalency debate, and ........

IMHO

I better get to work

K wrote: Or to be labeled naive by some bum, yes I know it was rude and I apologize. I'm sorry JayVee. However, don't mistake this apology as groveling a la Julian Mayo.

My bedroom is far from boring and it's better than being stuck up Alonso's a-hole (I jest).

...


JayVee "Why does Michael pick and choose his team mates are?"

...

Seriously though how many team mates do you reckon Michael Schumacher has had? How many can you name from memory? Out of those how many do you think Michael has actually chosen? I reckon he may have been consulted on at most four, but more likely two or three. That's not even half of them and I'm not saying he chose them either. With regards to Massa I think it's more likely that Todt asked Michael to give his impending team mate some lessons so him and his son wouldn't look like idiots. I reckon Todt said:

"Look Michael, my son needs something impressive on his CV, so we're gonna get Massa in a Ferrari for a season, do you have any objections?"

Michael replies "No not really, apart from the fact he can't drive..."

Todt says "Your right.... we'll take him out the Swiss machine for a season, that balled blokes getting grumpy anyway, we'll give him a testing role with us and you can teach him how to drive. Then we'll pop him back over to Hinwall where he can reacclimatize to racing, and practice what he's learned, before replacing that non-ball-playing git in the second car. Oh I wish Eddie was still around... things were much more simple and fun when he was here".

Well something like that anyway. For sure (one of my favorite F1 phrases) Massa's no Coulthard, who's no Alonso, who's no Michael but se la vie, we don't always get what we want even if that is just a subservient number two with the ability to win races when the maestro can't be bothered. What is one to do?

Ah K finally responds with some substance

I enjoyed reading the story but why the extra special effects. Sounded like an Al Pacino movie

As I expected the response to be. Michael is the one and only

But first to my question that you replied to!

I asked "Why does Michael pick and choose his team mates are?"

And within the long story you said

I reckon he may have been consulted on at most four, but more likely two or three. That's not even half of them and I'm not saying he chose them either

You are not saying he chose but was consulted. And the difference ? During consultations, if he said no, you think that driver would get the seat ?

There is no need to be silly about it, after all you don't like to read naive comments so don't make them.

It is well known that Michael has a veto on who his partner is and that is why you don't see a Raikkonen or Montoya or Alonso or even a Fisichella or a Trulli in a Ferrari alongside Michael

As for

Massa's no Coulthard, who's no Alonso, who's no Michael

Not sure what you base this statement on but if you look at Alonso's and Michael's acheivements then statistically they are very comparable.
Both drivers won their 1st Championship in their 4th season and both had very similar number of race wins and pole positions.

But Michael in no Alonso why ? Cause he acheived that at a younger age than Michael and did it fairly.
Michael won his first championship by pushing Hill off the track. Alonso won it in style with a few races to go.

Yes I admire Alonso but despite his achievements so far that surpass any current driver including your Schumacher, I never claim he is the best. Not yet anyway .

And stop being stuck up Michael's .... sorry can't say that. You certainly think the F1 world revolves around him but it doesn't.
Didn't 2005 teach you ?

It is well known that Michael has a veto on who his partner is and that is why you don't see a Raikkonen or Montoya or Alonso or even a Fisichella or a Trulli in a Ferrari alongside Michael

Just pulling you up on this one JV, never actually heard of this. Do you have any proof?

Oh and what is this? the longest post competition??

rah wrote:

It is well known that Michael has a veto on who his partner is and that is why you don't see a Raikkonen or Montoya or Alonso or even a Fisichella or a Trulli in a Ferrari alongside Michael

Just pulling you up on this one JV, never actually heard of this. Do you have any proof?

Oh and what is this? the longest post competition??

Oh please rah, you never heard discussions about drivers not being able to go to Ferrari because of 'the Michael situation'. Isn't that a veto ?
If that was not the case, Starting with Villeneuve and onto Raikkonen, Montoya and Alonso and many others, they all would have loved to take on Michael on equal terms. That never happened, I wonder why ?

For their own selfish interest, Michael and Ferrari denied us fans of 5 years of what could have been fierce competition between 2 drivers in the best car. Instead we got Austria, Indy, etc....
At least we don't have to worry about that anymore

Proof, yeah next thing tell me if I have proof why Barrichello decided to break out of his contract. Kapel you have proof

JayVee wrote: to take on Michael on equal terms.

Last time I looked they were all competing under the same set of rules, or are you saying that the only true competition in F1 is between teammates because they are the only ones in equal car?

If that is all that matters perhaps one should follow Formula Ford, or perhaps Formula Vee, there's lots of passing ....

Here's a thought ... maybe Mad Max can change the rules so each team can only enter one car

Ahem, meanwhile there is a story in the Age which covers the title of this thread. (Oh, no, not back on topic !)
Eddie Jordan, amongst others, states that Renault WILL quit F1 at the end of the year, leaving their premises at Enstone vacant, until "Schumaker F1 Audi/Volkswagon" opens for business.