My Man Button...

Snowy · Post by **Snowy** » Fri May 05, 2006 5:16 am

F1-NUT wrote: surely?

Surely!

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Fri May 05, 2006 7:20 am

F1-NUT wrote:
Snowy wrote:Rubinho is still a useful member of the team, even though he struggles with left foot breaking. He has spent five seasons with a winning team, and knows how he himself won and how Schuey won GP's and championships. Honda wanted that insight and knowledge. It is only a question of time before his input pays off. Perhaps they will compromise and give him a car suited to his style of driving. I think they are resisting that because they want as much crossover on car setup as they can. It might also be a cost cutting exercise, whatever it's not working so they'll have to do something about it. However it is technical not driver related that is until Rubinho's confidence is totally eroded.
I don't share you optimism. Of course I'd love RB to be up there to protect JB's backside and hope again that he'll manage something special, but I still can't see it. San Marino he was loads better, granted, so I'm hoping for a real show of strength this weekend. Hoping a lot more for another great pole from Button and his first win. It can't be that far away now, surely?

Surely ?

JayVee · Post by **JayVee** » Fri May 05, 2006 11:31 am

Julian Mayo wrote: watching Barra struggle with the transition to Honda makes me think that Mark Webber is even better than I thought. To jump from the minardi pedal car to that god-awful Jag and promptly ring its neck with pole etc, then into last years a#%& burning williams with no complaint. Little wonder he was recently awarded the Lorenzo Bandini Trophy for Driving Ability.

Pardon me Mr Ambassador but this is a Button thread

Hang on, I think there is a lot of similarities between Button and Webber, both are 6 letter names with a double in the middle

Both have yet to win a race and both have put their cars on Pole only to fall back in the race due to light fuel or a bad start or lack of consistency, etc ....

But if this is about Barrachello struggling, then perhaps it is worth mentioning that the gap between Button and Barrichello doesn't make Michael look good at all. And factor in the preferential treatment Michael gets at Ferrari and it looks worse.
And it also makes Button look good

rah · Post by **rah** » Fri May 05, 2006 2:37 pm

I really do not think that Button has had the car to win a race yet. Maybe if he had a little more luck at the right time it would happen but I havent seen that happen yet.

As for Barras performance showing that MS is not a good driver..... well that is one of the most ludicrous statement I have seen. But then this is a button thread so lets stay on topic.

JayVee · Post by **JayVee** » Fri May 05, 2006 4:32 pm

rah wrote: As for Barras performance showing that MS is not a good driver..... well that is one of the most ludicrous statement I have seen. But then this is a button thread so lets stay on topic.

Hey rah I can understand what you are saying BUT can you realise what triggered my comment ? It is Julian saying that Barras performance showed that MW is better than what he thought.

Now what do you call that statement rah ? Or just because Julian said it then you accept it

At least Barrichello drove alongside Michael and is now driving alongside Button. Webber and Barrichello were never team-mates so how could one's struggle show that another driver is good

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Fri May 05, 2006 4:39 pm

ok teach, let me spell it out for you as your bad mood is obviously imparing your thinking. Barra drives in the best team for a number of years as the no2 to the supposedly best driver in the world. One would assume he is the second best in the world, then.
When he moves, and fails to adapt, it sets me to wonderinghow good MW is.
No more and no less
Twist that as you will

rah · Post by **rah** » Sat May 06, 2006 2:34 am

JayVee wrote:
rah wrote: Hey rah I can understand what you are saying BUT can you realise what triggered my comment ? It is Julian saying that Barras performance showed that MW is better than what he thought.

Now what do you call that statement rah ? Or just because Julian said it then you accept it
At least Barrichello drove alongside Michael and is now driving alongside Button. Webber and Barrichello were never team-mates so how could one's struggle show that another driver is good

Julians comments were completely different to yours. I do not accept any persons comments out of hand nor would I expect others to accept mine.

Julian was building Webber up to what he hopes he is. You were questioning a seven times WDC's driving skill.

JayVee · Post by **JayVee** » Sat May 06, 2006 9:39 am

If you read what you are saying rah you'll realise you aren't making sense at all!

Julian is building Webber to what he hopes to he is. Ok fair enough but what does that have to do with Barrichello struggling or not. Absolutely nothing. He just wants to bring up the great Webber. If you can see any reason for all of a sudden someone realising that Webber is even better because of Barrichello's struggles

My point and of course you can accept what you want is that a driver is always compared to his team-mate and you'll always see see comparisons between a driver and his current and past team-mates.

So when a driver is fairly close to his team-mate then moves to another team and is wiped out then one usually says that either his new team-mate is brilliant or his old team-mate wasn't that good. Without putting names you'll realise you've used this comparison before. Now I am the first to say that this isn't an accurate comparison but it sure has some basis.

As for questioning your 7 times World Champ, of course I do that, when you drive for a team that makes you the undisputed number 1 in a team, you have an unfair advantage over your teammate and the rest of the field add to that a superior car then winning a championship doesn't become such a big deal.

JayVee · Post by **JayVee** » Sat May 06, 2006 9:45 am

Julian Mayo wrote:ok teach, let me spell it out for you as your bad mood is obviously imparing your thinking. Barra drives in the best team for a number of years as the no2 to the supposedly best driver in the world. One would assume he is the second best in the world, then.
When he moves, and fails to adapt, it sets me to wonderinghow good MW is.
No more and no less
Twist that as you will

But tell me, when has Webber moved to a team with an established driver already in the team ? Never

He went to Williams with Heidfeld and we know what happened. Now he has a rookie and we are watching with wonder

F1-NUT · Post by **F1-NUT** » Sat May 06, 2006 2:52 pm

I think someone should start a 'My Man Webber' Thread don't you? Heh. Anyway, for some strange reason that I have not yet been able to comprehend, there are a lot of 'Webberites' out there. Just what is it about this mediocre driver that gets everyone so wet? I'm sorry but I just don't see it.

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Sat May 06, 2006 3:48 pm

F1-NUT wrote:I think someone should start a 'My Man Webber' Thread don't you? Heh. Anyway, for some strange reason that I have not yet been able to comprehend, there are a lot of 'Webberites' out there. Just what is it about this mediocre driver that gets everyone so wet? I'm sorry but I just don't see it.

You are out of your league, nut. Leave the stirring to JV.

Ed · Post by Ed » Sat May 06, 2006 6:24 pm

We've moved a few posts to more appropriate topics.

There is actually a Mark Webber thread and a Button vs. Webber thread. I think if people try to stick to the topic it would make my life easier.

Splitting topics isn't easy so excuse us if a post doesn't seem to fit after being moved.

rah · Post by **rah** » Sat May 06, 2006 6:25 pm

And to think this thread was started about button, hey why dont we talk about him for a change?

rah · Post by **rah** » Sat May 06, 2006 6:25 pm

Oops sorry ed, beat me to it.

Snowy · Post by **Snowy** » Sun May 07, 2006 8:06 pm

Well well what fun you've all been having!

I would just like add my two cents.

Rubinho has taken a while to adjust to his new team and car and this is not rare for mid field cars and teams. When you move to Mclaren, Williams or Ferarri whilst they are buidling(oh look I've invented a new word) building competitive machinery it is not difficult to look good/get on the pace as evidenced by Jacque V in '96 or David C when he went to Mclaren. Contrast that with Alex Z when he moved to a struggling Williams and we can see that man and machine need to harmonise, both need to be good for good results. What Rubens situation shows us is just how much work Jenson has to do to make that car look as good as it does. That's not to say that the car isn't good just that it has been moulded around Jenson's driving and his input has made the car quick.

The down side of this is that the car doesn't suit everybody, Jenson's driving could mask some inherent flaws with the car and the team will often struggle to change direction. JV and T Sato have both been tamed by the BAR, Honda and JB combination, yesterday we saw Ruben out qualify Jenson evidence that change is the only certainty out there.

Oh and for MW fans

He has got a really fast team mate who is keeping him honest but not out performing him, when he moved to Williams his team mate Nick had had a lot of testing experience with the Williams team over a number of years which might explain some of the results. Others can be explained by the fact that Nick really had a point to prove, had he not performed he would be off the F1 map for sure. He would definately be Wurz off, a very salo colour and suffering withdrawal panis!