News On F1 Forums - Talk Formula 1

My apologies to Jac Fan re: gender. And to Bundy, who is only "hoping" that an accident will happen involving Felipe and Lewis "resulting" in his [Lewis's] loss of the WDC which he doesn't deserve for remarks apparently made in print or interviews unknown to me (and, so far as I can see on News on F1, undocumented).

As to the "safety car incident" which, had Fernando Alonso been involved would have resulted in a significant penalty, my understanding is that the FIA looked into the "evidence" and concluded there was no "incident."

It may, of course, be true that Bernie E. and Max M. (two chaps whom I loathe more thoroughly I dare say than even Bundy) are scheming to make themselves even more money by "engineering" a Lewis WDC. Just like they engineered SEVEN WDC's for Schumacher.

It may be. But I doubt it.

Remember, nothing would make me happier than to see Kimi win the WDC which I believe he richly deserves. I'm NOT a Ron Dennis fan (never have been), but rooted for Kimi when he drove for him and cursed Ron for giving the Finn so much junk [wings falling off, suspension collapsing, etc] it almost killed him I also rooted for Juan Pablo, tho he did stretch things a bit by wiping out in the first turn at Indy one year! But I am a Ferarri fan. I love the red cars everyone else, it seems, loves to hate. Lewis seems to me to be extraordinarily gifted. And lucky. But not personally offensive. Fernando is extraordinarily gifted too. Rather too emotional for my tastes, but brilliant in the car.

Why do I like Kimi so much? Who knows? Not for his personality; tho' I do love a chap who enters snowmobile races under James Hunt's name. As I say, I'd love for Kimi to win, but not by the elimination of his competitors. I wonder if even he would relish it all that much?

Personally, I think I'd rather have won six races to Lewis's four and LOST the WDC than have it the other way round.

We could probably settle all this over some beers. Pity we have to wait another week end to see how it all falls out

Ciao for now, Jim Watt

No hard feelings Jim. I have been called that a couple of times here. I guess you guys don't expect women to follow F1 or any racing for that matter.

As for Lewis..... I was perfectly prepared to like the guy and in fact during the first part of the year did not have any complaints against him.
However he does appear to me to play the oh so innocent while thinking he is so much better than anyone else out there.
In my humble opinion his behaviour behind the safety car was nothing short of dangerous. To me he appeared to be slamming on the brakes when Alonso was behind him in the hope that he would not notice and pass him therefore getting a penalty for passing under the SC. I understand perfectly that drivers do that to a degree (bunching up the cars behind and then putting the hammer down to get a big gap just before the safety car goes in) however in the conditions that was very very dangerous. I even wondered how close he was getting to the SC at times. I thought there was supposed to be a minimum distance!!
I too believe that if anyone else had done that there would have been a penalty of some description.
My dislike of him has nothing to do with how many races he has or will win. I loved Senna and he was very dominant in his day.

I really believe that LH does need a lesson or two in humilty. Even if he wins the WDC this year, he does not walk on water!!!

And finally

As to the "safety car incident" which, had Fernando Alonso been involved would have resulted in a significant penalty, my understanding is that the FIA looked into the "evidence" and concluded there was no "incident."

After everything that has happened this year, you still think the FIA are fair and reasonable????

OH and BTW I love red cars. I never buy anything but a red car. Not a Ferrari obviously but I love the colour red. I can remember when Ferrari couldn't even buy a win. I have nothing against Kimi. I am not all that fussed about who wins the WDC. GO Mark!!! LOL

RE30B#16 wrote:

JayVee wrote:As for Hamilton, well I didn't mind him but since I heard him speak I got that feeling that this guy tries to fool the media and the fans into appearing as a nice person.

Oh, Crypes!! So what if he is not a nice person?!!! Hamilton is no different than Michael Schumacher. He is articulate and charming especially with the press. On track, he is a monster. Some guys are straight poopholes with the press like James Hunt, Nelson Piquet, or Nigel Mansell. So what??!?

Lewis Hamilton is not in Formula 1 to make friends. He is there to win races and championships, period!! I am a big fan of Fernando Alonso, but FA could have handled this season with a bit more aplomb considering he is now the grizzled old veteran at age 26.

I came to dislike Michael Schumacher mainly for his desperation antics during actually races (eg: Dodgey moves against Damon Hill 1994 and Jacques Villeneuve in 1997), and his unwillingness to support Eddie Irvine's championship challenge to Mika Hakkinen in 1999. Hamilton has yet to do anything like that safety car antics notwithstanding. He has not crashed out an opponent a la Senna style.

Lewis Hamilton is in the enviable position of being "the chosen one" at McLaren not unlike Alain Prost, Ayrton Senna, and Mika Hakkinen were in the past. He has proven he can deliver the goods. He is brimming over with confidence. He is Tiger Woods in a race helmet.

You guys sound like the NASCAR fans who dislike Jeff Gordon because "he wins too much."

RE30B#16,

I have no problem with someone being not nice. What I do have a problem with is for someone who tries to show he is nice but isn't.

I think that having been 'brought up' by Dennis since he was 10 or something, he has been manufactured by all those advisors working for McLaren, be it PR, fitness, racing, etc...

Yes he hasn't taken anyone out yet but you never know. I guess he can't take Alonso out cause Raikkonen is still in the hunt otherwise who knows.

Alonso is in his 6th year and has yet to make a controversial move and get away with it. In Monza last year he was penalised for blocking Massa and all the world saw that he was miles ahead. He was penalised in Japan while racing and was told to give a place back (which was unfair), he was penalised for brake testing Doornbos (which I think was fair), he was penalised for his Hungary move (which I don't agree with the move but if he was penalised so should have Hamilton).
So Alonso gets penalised for anything he does, if someone knows of something Alonso did controversially and wasn't penalised ? (And please don't tell me the start at Spa was, we went over that already

Yet for Hamilton, was he ever penalised ? In Japan, Kubica spun him and was penalised. Around the same time was it Vettel who spun Alonso, why wasn't he penalised ? Even Hamilton didn't think Kubica was at fault!
Causing an accident behind the safety car and that was not a problem. And Hamilton goes on the offensive and attacks all 21 drivers who think he is at fault. You know this is Hamilton, the one and only Hamilton who is the best driver out there and does nothing wrong.

Although I think he will still win, I hope he doesn't. Even if Raikkonen wins I would be happy.

Interesting this business about the FIA appointing someone special to ensure that Alonso is treated fairly.

What a nightmare Alonso has had at McLaren and if he does win, well that would be such a sweeet revenge

thanks, Jac Fan (and Jay Vee!!)

I must admit I've not been keeping track of how the FIA's treated Fernando this year; as I've said before (to Jay Vee, I think) I believe Fernando is phenomenal in the car, but I am less impressed with him out of it.

I know that Latins are more emotional than we northerners (I am, obviously, at least half Caladonian), but I think Fernando has been more than a little strange from his first WDC. by 'strange' I mean more than a little moody and withdrawn. And if we object to Lewis's overly developed sense of self, it seems we might object, too, to Fernando's repeated complaint about not being treated as he should (as defending WDC). The problem with that position --and it has been rather obvious from Canada on, is that he has been for most of the season doing just that: defending. And having his hands full. With a rookie driver, yet!

He certainly hasn't been the sort of Champion FIA would like to have (making the PR rounds and wooing people like Michael and Mikka did --and like Jeff Gordon does too!) and you're probably correct to think FIA would love to have a more corporate type take over. And certainly Lewis IS Ron Dennis's creation. Mr. Corporate. [on that subject, by the by, I've been thinking of calling Vodofone McLaren/Mercedes next year "Team Untegrity" --just to make Mr. Dennis's teeth grind! ]

Still. On Speed tv (which covers F1 for us in the States), they showed Lewis making the rounds shaking his mechanics' hands and laughing with them after his disastrous excursion into the gravel in China; just the kind of think Michael used to do. And it seemed, at least to my tired old eyes to be sincere. Indeed, it's hard for me to believe I could face anyone after having just thrown away a certain lock on the WDC! That sort of gentlemanly behavior is very winning to me.

And while I'm on about this, I have to admit that Kimi would probably be as enigmatic and difficult a champion as Fernando; maybe, given his late nite antics, even less desirable to the corporate types.

What it comes down to is it's hard for us to explain our personal responses to the drivers, even to ourselves.

What I really DON'T expect to see from Lewis next week --and what will go a long way to making me feel better about his WDC if he DOES do it-- is an all-out Kimi or Senna-like ASSAULT on the field, going wheel to wheel and around the outside if necessary to WIN the race and to hell with playing it safe.

I KNOW Kimi's going to go all out to win because, as I said earlier, he just loves to WIN. And ending the season with Six to the WDC's (Both of them) Fours will go a long way to making the off season more fun!

And, in closing, here's hoping that Fernando STAYS in his McLaren seat for next year; it will be terrible if he goes to a less competitive car! Of course, he COULD go to Ferarri! Kimi & Fernando just might MAKE MY 2008!

Cheers & Jim Watt

Jim Watt wrote: What I really DON'T expect to see from Lewis next week --and what will go a long way to making me feel better about his WDC if he DOES do it-- is an all-out Kimi or Senna-like ASSAULT on the field, going wheel to wheel and around the outside if necessary to WIN the race and to hell with playing it safe.

Obviously, you've never seen the lad racing karts. Check him out at age 11 on YouTube.

jacfan, JayVee, and the rest of y'all:

I can't believe the level of hating going on by some of you with regard to Lewis Hamilton. Some of you who hated Fernando Alonso last year are defending and rooting for him like fans extraordinaire! None of your reasons or explanations match your vitriol at a young driver who has made no dodgy moves on track during a race. This safety car incident hardly compares to any of a half dozen crappy moves or comments Michael Schumacher made during his career, yet even those of you who were not big MS fan never talked about him like this for as long as I can remember being on this board!

And for those who say, " he pretending to be a nice bloke for the cameras," if you don't know the guy personally, how can this kind of statement make sense? It doesn't. All of the drivers give these fake a#% comments to the press nowadays. The FIA mandates it lest they be fined (remember when Mika was fined for saying, "...I thought changing tires would help, but then the car was really s#$%!!").

For those of you still predicting (wishing for) a Lewis crash, get a life! If if hasn't happened by now, it ain't (not unless he has help).

Sorry if this kid is not so cuddly after all. If I were Ron Dennis running a multi-billion dollars operation like McLaren International, I would never have hired him if I didn't think he thought he was better than all of the rest of the drivers out there. IMHO, I believe he is the best with the possible exception of Alonso (of whom I am a big fan). In a straight fight, only Raikkonen or Alonso have the sheer ability. Only Alonso shares the same desire to win.

Thanks

I'm out...

RE30B#16 wrote:jacfan, JayVee, and the rest of y'all:

I can't believe the level of hating going on by some of you with regard to Lewis Hamilton. Some of you who hated Fernando Alonso last year are defending and rooting for him like fans extraordinaire! None of your reasons or explanations match your vitriol at a young driver who has made no dodgy moves on track during a race. This safety car incident hardly compares to any of a half dozen crappy moves or comments Michael Schumacher made during his career, yet even those of you who were not big MS fan never talked about him like this for as long as I can remember being on this board!

And for those who say, " he pretending to be a nice bloke for the cameras," if you don't know the guy personally, how can this kind of statement make sense? It doesn't. All of the drivers give these fake a#% comments to the press nowadays. The FIA mandates it lest they be fined (remember when Mika was fined for saying, "...I thought changing tires would help, but then the car was really s#$%!!").

For those of you still predicting (wishing for) a Lewis crash, get a life! If if hasn't happened by now, it ain't (not unless he has help).

Sorry if this kid is not so cuddly after all. If I were Ron Dennis running a multi-billion dollars operation like McLaren International, I would never have hired him if I didn't think he thought he was better than all of the rest of the drivers out there. IMHO, I believe he is the best with the possible exception of Alonso (of whom I am a big fan). In a straight fight, only Raikkonen or Alonso have the sheer ability. Only Alonso shares the same desire to win.

Thanks

I'm out...

Whoa settle down. Hate is a very strong word. As you pointed out I don't know the guy personally but then neither do you I expect. I don't hate LH I just don't particularly like him. As I keep pointing out I don't have to like him. I am entitled to my opinion just as you are entitled to yours. I don't expect to guy to "cuddly" whatever that means.
Geez Louise. As for

get a life!

Really??? You honestly believe that not liking LH constitutes not having a life!!!! You can't be serious.
FYI I do have a life and it does not revolve around F1 or LH!!!
This is ridiculous if you ask me. I thought this was a fun site where people could express an opinion even if it different to someone else's opinion but it seems that I was wrong.
I am sorry I ever bothered!!

RE30B#16 wrote: I can't believe the level of hating going on by some of you with regard to Lewis Hamilton. Some of you who hated Fernando Alonso last year are defending and rooting for him like fans extraordinaire!

"Hating" Alonso? Or "hating" Hamilton for that matter? Any references here? I think you should prove that. I dislike Hamilton thoroughly but "hate" is too strong a word. I support good and clean racing, on and off the track.

RE30B#16 wrote:None of your reasons or explanations match your vitriol at a young driver who has made no dodgy moves on track during a race. This safety car incident hardly compares to any of a half dozen crappy moves or comments Michael Schumacher made during his career,

Firstly LH is at the start of his career. The way things are I guess we will hear a lot from him in the coming years. Secondly, in my opinion that SC incident is MUCH worse than many other on-track incidents we have witnessed over the years. The visibility was so bad erratic braking could have constituted a case of "multiple murder attempt" had there been a worse crash. Yet he got away with that. We are merely asking what kinda penalty there'd be imposed if it were Alonso doing the same thing. There would DEFINITELY be a penalty and a hefty one.

RE30B#16 wrote:yet even those of you who were not big MS fan never talked about him like this for as long as I can remember being on this board!

I beg to differ. He was the epitome of controversy. There had been quite a few occasions where MS has been criticized for bending the rules and getting away with it. In fact there was much more talk compared to any other driver (perhaps Hamilton may be able to catch him, after all he's just a rookie yet). Remember that team orders had been canceled after a few occasions of Barrichello yielding to MS.

RE30B#16 wrote:And for those who say, " he pretending to be a nice bloke for the cameras," if you don't know the guy personally, how can this kind of statement make sense? It doesn't. All of the drivers give these fake a#% comments to the press nowadays. The FIA mandates it lest they be fined (remember when Mika was fined for saying, "...I thought changing tires would help, but then the car was really s#$%!!").

I haven't met him and I don't really care to. That said, as far as I know nobody here knows him personally. Which makes you trying to defend his character a moot attempt. We have heard a few things about LH that made us think that way. I am free to believe in what I choose. Since I smell contradiction between his public and off-record remarks coupled with a questionable on-track incident I tend to dislike him. Besides if all 21 drivers think alike there must be something fishy going on.

RE30B#16 wrote:For those of you still predicting (wishing for) a Lewis crash, get a life! If if hasn't happened by now, it ain't (not unless he has help).

Apart from the fact that it's not your place to tell anyone here (be it a lady or a gentleman) to "get a life", you gotta accept that we are all entitled to our opinions.

Now that you mention it I think I prefer the idea of Hamilton not crashing but coming in 6th and Alonso or Raikkonen winning the race and claiming the title.

RE30B#16 wrote:Sorry if this kid is not so cuddly after all. If I were Ron Dennis running a multi-billion dollars operation like McLaren International, I would never have hired him if I didn't think he thought he was better than all of the rest of the drivers out there. IMHO, I believe he is the best with the possible exception of Alonso (of whom I am a big fan). In a straight fight, only Raikkonen or Alonso have the sheer ability. Only Alonso shares the same desire to win.

Thanks

I'm out...

Once again, we are not questioning his driving abilities here. It's the attitude and behavior... I think there'll be much more to come in 2008 and on.

I hate to say it Gkay but you are wasting your time and energy. I have said many of the things you have said many times and still I get attacked on a personal level for daring to have an opinion.

jacfan wrote:I hate to say it Gkay but you are wasting your time and energy. I have said many of the things you have said many times and still I get attacked on a personal level for daring to have an opinion.

please excuse me for voicing an opinion about daring to have an opinion

I should hope to read many more of your opinions, and those of many others.
I have found that the right to express an opinion, is a right that one should never, ever allow others to trample.
Thus, I look forward to reading many more of yours, Jacfan.

jacfan wrote:I hate to say it Gkay but you are wasting your time and energy. I have said many of the things you have said many times and still I get attacked on a personal level for daring to have an opinion.

You're simply exercizing your right to the freedom of speech. You go ahead, this is a free forum. If people cannot handle you voicing an opinion then tough luck on them.

gkaytaz wrote:

jacfan wrote:I hate to say it Gkay but you are wasting your time and energy. I have said many of the things you have said many times and still I get attacked on a personal level for daring to have an opinion.

You're simply exercizing your right to the freedom of speech. You go ahead, this is a free forum. If people cannot handle you voicing an opinion then tough luck on them.

Gkaytaz's right, jacfan; this is a free forum for ideas and opinions related to motorsports and if people can't deal with opposing opinions then tough on 'em. This IMO has been one of the best F1 seasons(the Stepney-Gate scandal notwithstanding) in recent memory and I for one would(to be very blunt about it) hate to see the memories of this year ruint' because of the seeming vitriol that has come to the surface here a/la Hamilton and Alonso and all the controversy surrounding them. Let's just relax a moment and realize something; all of us who post here(whether on a regular basis or not) are part/parcel of what is IMHO the most civilized, best motorsports-related site on the Internets and we shouldn't forget that.

Now, then.........on to Interlagos and the conclusion of a very thrilling, very strange and very exciting Formula 1 campaign; may the best driver win, regardless of whether it is Hamilton, Alonso or Raikkonen.

Oui!
Is not every post by every person merely an expression of opinion?
( Except those who spoil us with commentary, and do so extremely well.)
A little humour goes a long way, Yes?
Some of you have entertained me for a long time, with your exchanges.
It is the disillusion expressed by JacFan that has prompted me to steel my resolve and voice my own tiny opinion.
Alors !!!! To Arms, JacFan !!!!
(Wo)man the Ramparts !!!
Repel All Tramplers with your wit and dignity !!!!

Thanks to mlittle for "Let's just relax a moment and realize something; all of us who post here(whether on a regular basis or not) are part/parcel of what is IMHO the most civilized, best motorsports-related site on the Internets and we shouldn't forget that."

Amen, I say, to that. (We're probably all just getting cranky because we realize one of the best seasons in past years is almost over and we have to wait through the holidays for March to come again!

to you all: & may your driver win (whatever it is you want him to win)

Jim Watt

Perhaps there are those who need to find a replacement villain, now there is no Michael ???