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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:36 am
by Julian Mayo
Snowy wrote:Julian Mayo wrote:just a coupla questions guys? Who was carrying what fuel, were the cars in same engine spec., did they have the same aero , were they running the same tyres, and tyre pressures????????
We don't know! Which is typical of F1. I tried to convince Ed to pay for me to go and suss all this out but he was strangely quite on the subject. I asked him if he knew any members of the test teams or anyone at the track he confessed he didn't. I think we should suggest he scout out some marshals for next seasons testing. So that we are never left in this kind of limbo again.
Pedro and Lewis are almost definately involved in competition for a race seat along with DTM's Gary Paffett, and were testing tyres for China and Brazil, it would be a bit uneconomical to have them running different fuel and tyres so that no real decision could be made. Often the fastest guy doesn't get the drive because the other has a better grasp of feedback and shows more potential for development. The decisions would always be mysterious to us mere mortals. However one thing is particularly evident from the lap times Nelson and Lewis have set. They are both very quick and quick at adapting to the pinnacle of motorsport. Which prompted someone at ITV to ask the question 'are modern F1 cars too easy to drive?' Which is a dumb question imho, 'are modern F1 cars too easy to drive quickly?' would be more appropriate yet that is still a pretty daft question. An F1 car will lap a circuit twice in the time it takes a BMW M3 to complete a lap and irrispective of improvements in technology the physical forces and mental agility involved in travelling that fast are still considerable. Breaking distances are substantially shorter than ever and driving on the edge is by it's very definition the edge and if that is easy or easier now than ever then I'm an F1 race car driver.
I agree on PK n Lewis. Paffett deserves to be in the mix too. The actual speed these guys travel at is irrelevent imho. I did a trip a while back where I was rarely below 200kmh for several hours at a time. That is double the normal permissable top speed. The brain adjusted very quickly, for my passenger also. So much so that I had to stop her from alighting at 25kmh !! The brain has the ability to alter its perception of time and speed to suit the circumstances. I have had a couple of situations go horribly wrong, suddenly everything is happening in slo-mo, and I seemed to have all the time in the world. The hands were shaking at a trillion mph afterwards tho !!
F1 cars are again imho easier to drive than they were a decade ago, but to put any car on the limit and keep it there lap after lap requires a rare skill. Thats why I still reserve judgement on Nico,Kubrica et al and will do with these guys, Ralf I abandoned long ago, Trulli I have doubts about Nick is a worry, Fisi ????? that guy is a conundrum to me, PDLR and Massa seem to have the ability, Kimi, Scummi and Alonso have, Webber wrings the neck of most of the crap he drives, on a regular basis. DC rarely gets out of his comfort zone these day, Button should have had his bank account frozen a couple of years ago to keep his mind on the job.
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:07 am
by Ed
Snowy wrote:Julian Mayo wrote:just a coupla questions guys? Who was carrying what fuel, were the cars in same engine spec., did they have the same aero , were they running the same tyres, and tyre pressures????????
We don't know! Which is typical of F1. I tried to convince Ed to pay for me to go and suss all this out but he was strangely quite on the subject. I asked him if he knew any members of the test teams or anyone at the track he confessed he didn't. I think we should suggest he scout out some marshals for next seasons testing. So that we are never left in this kind of limbo again.
Pedro and Lewis are almost definately involved in competition for a race seat along with DTM's Gary Paffett, and were testing tyres for China and Brazil, it would be a bit uneconomical to have them running different fuel and tyres so that no real decision could be made. Often the fastest guy doesn't get the drive because the other has a better grasp of feedback and shows more potential for development. The decisions would always be mysterious to us mere mortals. However one thing is particularly evident from the lap times Nelson and Lewis have set. They are both very quick and quick at adapting to the pinnacle of motorsport. Which prompted someone at ITV to ask the question 'are modern F1 cars too easy to drive?' Which is a dumb question imho, 'are modern F1 cars too easy to drive quickly?' would be more appropriate yet that is still a pretty daft question. An F1 car will lap a circuit twice in the time it takes a BMW M3 to complete a lap and irrispective of improvements in technology the physical forces and mental agility involved in travelling that fast are still considerable. Breaking distances are substantially shorter than ever and driving on the edge is by it's very definition the edge and if that is easy or easier now than ever then I'm an F1 race car driver.
Thanks Snowy for posting the times!
Good times from both Piquet Jr and Hamilton.
Interesting that the Renault was more than half a second faster than the McLaren!
Are you saying that you can get lap by lap times, fuel loads, engine specs, etc ...
? Are you happy to be our roving reporter in Europe ? Let me know and we can talk
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:44 pm
by JayVee
Snowy wrote:JayVee wrote:Looks like Nelson has potential. Being faster than Heikki is something!
Good signing by Renault I'd say!
It is actually very scary because he did half the number of laps in that session and has only driven the car twice!
Perhaps he should be racing next season and not Fisi!
Why scary ? I actually can't understand the reason Fisichella was retained in the first place!
Piquet Jr is impressive and if under similar conditions did set a faster time than Heikki then don't be surprised if he replaces Fisichella later in the season.
Hamilton setting a faster time than de la Rosa is also impressive but de la Rosa wasn't that fast to start with.
I really wonder which driver McLaren will choose because Hamilton and Paffet are rookies and de la Rosa is Spanish!
Perhaps we will all be surprised and see someone from across the pond jump over
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:55 pm
by JayVee
As far as I know Alonso is driving for McLaren next year while Piquet Jr is testing for Renault
And how did you reach the conclusion that Alonso is overrated ?
Last year Alonso scored 133 points compared to Fisichella's 58, that is more than double. Michael and Raikkonen didn't score double the points of their teammates.
This year Alonso is nearly double the points of Fisichella. The point difference is larger than that between Michael and Massa
And did you see his drive in the wet in Hungary ? Did you notice he moved from 10th to 3rd in Italy ?
If Alonso is overrated who isn't ??????
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:03 pm
by JayVee
Julian Mayo wrote:
I agree on PK n Lewis. Paffett deserves to be in the mix too. The actual speed these guys travel at is irrelevent imho. I did a trip a while back where I was rarely below 200kmh for several hours at a time. That is double the normal permissable top speed. The brain adjusted very quickly, for my passenger also. So much so that I had to stop her from alighting at 25kmh !! The brain has the ability to alter its perception of time and speed to suit the circumstances. I have had a couple of situations go horribly wrong, suddenly everything is happening in slo-mo, and I seemed to have all the time in the world. The hands were shaking at a trillion mph afterwards tho !!
F1 cars are again imho easier to drive than they were a decade ago, but to put any car on the limit and keep it there lap after lap requires a rare skill. Thats why I still reserve judgement on Nico,Kubrica et al and will do with these guys, Ralf I abandoned long ago, Trulli I have doubts about Nick is a worry, Fisi ????? that guy is a conundrum to me, PDLR and Massa seem to have the ability, Kimi, Scummi and Alonso have, Webber wrings the neck of most of the crap he drives, on a regular basis. DC rarely gets out of his comfort zone these day, Button should have had his bank account frozen a couple of years ago to keep his mind on the job.
overall
Just a point, how can you reserve judgement on Kubica when you have already judged him to be the 3rd fastest driver out there
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:58 pm
by Julian Mayo
At that point in time.
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:49 pm
by JayVee
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:07 pm
by Julian Mayo
Sorry, I was running late, and didn't have time to answer properly.
As of his podium, that is how I rate him, because of his consistant lap times in THAT race. I wish to reserve judgement on his "seasonal" capabilities.
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:41 pm
by Snowy
Ed wrote:
Are you saying that you can get lap by lap times, fuel loads, engine specs, etc ...
? Are you happy to be our roving reporter in Europe ? Let me know and we can talk
Oh if only
I have to admit my journalistic capabilities are as flawed as my social skills. I am in fact a timid creature who's pupils run rings around. In the pit lane I would soon become a laughing stock and be fed all sorts of misleading information and lies just so the mechanics and team members could laugh at what I was prepared to print. Lets face it mightier men than myself haven't delivered the kind of information I and many others crave.
But having seen the lap by lap times published by Barcelona one can't help but wonder why more information isn't in the public domain. I wish I'd never laid eyes on that damn data now
Ignorance is such bliss.
However if we could come to some sort of financial arrangement... Before I studied for my degree in Fine Art painting and my teaching cert I was planning on being a sports illustrator, I take a camera where ever I go... Perhaps we should talk.
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:12 pm
by Snowy
JayVee wrote:
Why scary ? I actually can't understand the reason Fisichella was retained in the first place!
Piquet Jr is impressive and if under similar conditions did set a faster time than Heikki then don't be surprised if he replaces Fisichella later in the season.
Hamilton setting a faster time than de la Rosa is also impressive but de la Rosa wasn't that fast to start with.
I really wonder which driver McLaren will choose because Hamilton and Paffet are rookies and de la Rosa is Spanish!
Perhaps we will all be surprised and see someone from across the pond jump over
Scarey because Heikki is definately quick not just fast. Did you happen to witness the race of champions in 2004? I think it's called the race of champions... anyway it's the event where rally drivers, F1 drivers and other top class drivers get together and go head to head in a variety of machinery. Sebastian Loeb beat schumacher and everybody else because basically he is very quick and more familier with the type of machinery being used. Loeb and Schumacher had been beating everybody all weekend except one person Heikki Kovalainen! He set the fastest times and did to Sebastian what Seb had done to Schuey i.e. made him look ordinary!! Don't believe me?
Here I looked it up!
Wikipeadia writes:
Race of Champions
Kovalainen competed in the 2004 Race of Champions in the Stade de France in Paris. He was eventually crowned "Champion of Champions" beating out World Rally Champion S?bastien Loeb in the finals. Kovalainen's feat included winning over Loeb in a WRC car, although he had never even sat in a rally car before, and over the Ferrari Formula One star Michael Schumacher in a Ferrari.
Results
Round__________Opponent________________Car ___________________Time _________Difference ___Result
1____________David Coulthard ________Race of Champions Buggy _1:45.8988 ________-11.905 _____1 - 0
2____________Jean Alesi _____________Ferrari 360 Modena _______1:48.9325 ________-1.7085 _____1 - 0
Semi-Finals__Michael Schumacher ______Ferrari 360 Modena _______1:45.3851 ________-10.9954 ____1 - 0
Final________S?bastien Loeb __________Peugeot 307 WRC ________1:42.2602 _________-0.7977 ____1 - 0
_____________S?bastien Loeb _________Ferrari 360 Modena _______1:47.4383 _________-8.1459 ____1 - 0
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:20 pm
by Snowy
JayVee wrote:
Hamilton setting a faster time than de la Rosa is also impressive but de la Rosa wasn't that fast to start with.
De la Rosa is getting on a bit but to say he wasn't fast to start with is a bit unfair. He was twice European radio controlled off-road car Champion!
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:44 pm
by Julian Mayo
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:47 pm
by Julian Mayo
Snowy wrote:Ed wrote:
Are you saying that you can get lap by lap times, fuel loads, engine specs, etc ...
? Are you happy to be our roving reporter in Europe ? Let me know and we can talk
Oh if only
I have to admit my journalistic capabilities are as flawed as my social skills. I am in fact a timid creature who's pupils run rings around. In the pit lane I would soon become a laughing stock and be fed all sorts of misleading information and lies just so the mechanics and team members could laugh at what I was prepared to print. Lets face it mightier men than myself haven't delivered the kind of information I and many others crave.
But having seen the lap by lap times published by Barcelona one can't help but wonder why more information isn't in the public domain. I wish I'd never laid eyes on that damn data now
Ignorance is such bliss.
However if we could come to some sort of financial arrangement... Before I studied for my degree in Fine Art painting and my teaching cert I was planning on being a sports illustrator, I take a camera where ever I go... Perhaps we should talk.
I have my camo tree, you could borrow
There are a couple of Rotty jaw size chunks missing from around the nether region, (thank god for Kevlar Jocks), but a bit of hessian would fix that
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:49 pm
by Julian Mayo
JayVee wrote:
As far as I know Alonso is driving for McLaren next year while Piquet Jr is testing for Renault
And how did you reach the conclusion that Alonso is overrated ?
Last year Alonso scored 133 points compared to Fisichella's 58, that is more than double. Michael and Raikkonen didn't score double the points of their teammates.
This year Alonso is nearly double the points of Fisichella. The point difference is larger than that between Michael and Massa
And did you see his drive in the wet in Hungary ? Did you notice he moved from 10th to 3rd in Italy ?
If Alonso is overrated who isn't ??????
Why this?
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:15 am
by Snowy
Julian Mayo wrote:
I have my camo tree, you could borrow
There are a couple of Rotty jaw size chunks missing from around the nether region, (thank god for Kevlar Jocks), but a bit of hessian would fix that
Why that's right civilized of you my friend
What exactly do you propose I do with your camo tree? It sounds to me it's had quite a full and perhaps a bit too scarey a life.
My mate Colin has an extraordinarily journeyed support, it's suffered the slings and arrows of the Le Mans 24hr race about five times. I was thinking of borrowing that and he only lives in Horsham which as you know is just down the road from me. However if Ed is prepared to fork out for the postage and packing I'd at least like a gander!
