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JayVee wrote: sgd, are you sure you mean Webber not Weber (cause that is a real hard cooker )?

What do you mean Button is good overall but is a looser by nature Please Explain

I know it is pretty late but I still think I am reading this right

Never heard of a looser being good overall

1.Webber (it's not me but the man from the F1-analysis (tv) who said that)
2.About Button i meant "average" good. average good in Q, average good in races, average good in consistence, etc...
He's not agressive (!) and he's OK if he finishes 3rd, or 4th...
Not a F1 winner.
is my clarification understable to you JV?

Yes sgd

1. That was a joke. Look up Weber on Google
2. You called him a looser. Someone (not me) could get angry

Hi sgd,

youre right when you say Juan Pablo was overall more successfull over the last 3 years at WILLIAMS. He had 19 podiums, Ralf 11. In direct battles when both finished inside the points JPM leads Ralf 10-9. Both had 3 wins but JPM was 10x2nd and 6x3rd whereas Ralf was 4x2nd and 4x3rd.

Based on efficiency JPM should be rated higher but the question was who are currently the fastest drivers in F1...

To be honest Im not 100% sure on Ralf but it seems he is a bit happier at TOYOTA and looks like coming to hand.

Im not a "MS fan" but a dedicated follower of F1, I like to give credit where its due and who is the best driver is very far out of question. In any driver survey, and you can find statements of most drivers from the last years somewhere, you will find one name as the best driver since Ayrton Senna.
Rubens was many times extremely close to that man and you can hardly expect that he is less than a top driver based on that.


Eventually we are getting closer to the time where someone else than Michael takes over as the best, and Kimi/Fernando are the most serious candidates for that.

F1greyhound wrote:Based on efficiency JPM should be rated higher but the question was who are currently the fastest drivers in F1...
To be honest Im not 100% sure on Ralf but it seems he is a bit happier at TOYOTA and looks like coming to hand.

i understand. I just was talking about JMP and Ralf because as teammantes we had the oportunity to compare them for 3 years so it'd be a lot clearer who's fastest there... but looks like it's not for you.
you say "the question was who are currently the fastest drivers in F1" yep. and i can see ralf has been fast with totoya but Trulli has been too, I think as fast as him (3 podiums!?), over the year...

F1greyhound wrote:Im not a "MS fan"

com'on!

I am a MS fan.

I also think that Juan Pablo have the better ultimate talent of him and Ralf, but I think that Juan Pablo have had too many problems applying himself and his talent to F1.

Ralf is better at setting a car up than Juan Pablo, and I rate Ralf as a VERY GODD F1 driver.

Just not in the top-4.

Isnt it obvious, the top of the list has to be ......

1-MONTOYA
2-KIMI
3-ALONSO
4-BUTTON
5-HEIDFELD

<T-K> wrote:Isnt it obvious, the top of the list has to be ......

1-MONTOYA
2-KIMI
3-ALONSO
4-BUTTON
5-HEIDFELD

Since you ask that way.

No not obvious at all.

K-D wrote:

<T-K> wrote:Isnt it obvious, the top of the list has to be ......

1-MONTOYA
2-KIMI
3-ALONSO
4-BUTTON
5-HEIDFELD

Since you ask that way.

No not obvious at all.

Nah I can't see that as obvious. But we were asked for our opinions. And that what we all gave.

sgd wrote:

bundy wrote:i will put mine in order. feel free to criticise;

1. Alonso - Leads the championship. Showed a lot of talent in Monaco drive
2. Kimi - Will win the WDC this year I believe
3. Schumacher - How do you leave a 7 time WDC out. Love him or hate him you MUST respect his ability.
4. Button - Has had a tough start but once BAR got their s**t together he finished 3rd. (Even though then got DQ'd)
5. Webber - Is consistently quick in Qual. Let down by Williams poor starts. Been beaten twice by team-mate. 1st time poor strategy cost him, 2nd time poor start & team cost him. Otherwise NH doesn't look like finishing anywhere near him.

it's hard to criticise because it's your personal point of view, but Button and Webber better than Montoya?
Webber do very good Q-er but in races fade away.(On the F1 analysis i've heard already twice that Webber is a hard cooker... at least that would explain VERY good his Q and race performances...)
Button is good overall (i think) but is a looser by nature, not a F1 winner driver...

Cheers!

The reason I have left out JPM is because he has done VERY little if anything at all this season. While MS has struggled so too has the Ferrari but he has still had 1 VERY VERY strong performance. JPM has no excuse as Kimi has now won 2 races and McLaren look very strong (yes i know he was injured & missed a few races) and he has put in 2 poor performances since he has been back (While his race drive in Monaco was OK, his ego & stupidity cost him a strong qualifying place).

<T-K> wrote:Isnt it obvious, the top of the list has to be ......

1-MONTOYA
2-KIMI
3-ALONSO
4-BUTTON
5-HEIDFELD

Its obviously not that obvious because.....
I totally disagree!!!!!

Hey Sgd,
U can write about Rubens whenevr u want.When have i stopped u from posting ur thoughts or that matter anyone

If you look at my top drivers list,i've put him in 4th position,shared with Montoya.Though Montoya has a more aggressive style,i feel that both are very inconsistent. Montoya would have an edged & could come in top 3 if he keeps his ego at home.

In this thread,u CANNOT bring out ur thoughts about team orders or playing 2nd fidle to MS in Rubens case cos thats not what is being discussed here. (U can, as u've done a million times,put those thoughts in "Ferrari is cheating thread" )

bundy wrote:i will put mine in order. feel free to criticise;

1. Alonso - Leads the championship. Showed a lot of talent in Monaco drive
2. Kimi - Will win the WDC this year I believe
3. Schumacher - How do you leave a 7 time WDC out. Love him or hate him you MUST respect his ability.
4. Button - Has had a tough start but once BAR got their s**t together he finished 3rd. (Even though then got DQ'd)
5. Webber - Is consistently quick in Qual. Let down by Williams poor starts. Been beaten twice by team-mate. 1st time poor strategy cost him, 2nd time poor start & team cost him. Otherwise NH doesn't look like finishing anywhere near him.

bundy wrote: The reason I have left out JPM is because he has done VERY little if anything at all this season. While MS has struggled so too has the Ferrari but he has still had 1 VERY VERY strong performance. JPM has no excuse as Kimi has now won 2 races and McLaren look very strong (yes i know he was injured & missed a few races) and he has put in 2 poor performances since he has been back (While his race drive in Monaco was OK, his ego & stupidity cost him a strong qualifying place).

You are in problems... if those are your arguments to let Montoya out, please explain me why is Button in??? And remember him being overtaken at IMOLA!
be sincere and gives us your real top5!

bundy wrote:
Its obviously not that obvious because.....
I totally disagree!!!!!

Now this is the reason i am geting frustrated....u must be a shumi fan...

If Montoya goes from the back of the grid, to 5th, you say it is "OK".....but i can gaurantee you if it was shumacher then you would not stop going on and on and on and on and on about how good shumacher is...... no credit ever goes to the other drivers when they perform brilliantly...(like montoya in monaco)

Bundy
I find it best to shake your head and walk away. a long walk away.

julian mayo wrote:Bundy
I find it best to shake your head and walk away. a long walk away.

Julian, you haven't post yours....