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So now we have the evil twins of the F1 Empire. All those Ferrari Bashers can but squirm. ................ .............

But seiously folks..........lets take a moment to boil all the dross away.
A Ferrari employee did something wrong.
A McLaren employee did something wrong.
Neither team benefitted.
Keelhaul the pair of buggas, hang draw n quarter them, and then lets get on with the business praying for intermittant downpours at all of the races

Snowy wrote:Not very fair. Either they are responsible for their workforce (particularly senior staff) and were in possession and are guilty or they are not. They can't only be guilty if they actually use the material to improve their performance?! Surely this is a whitewash (no offense to those of you who are white ).

I'm sorta light brownish....should I be offended or not?????

And McLaren's statement:

Following an appearance by McLaren today at the FIA World Motor Sport Council in Paris, a unanimous decision has been taken by the FIA which in McLaren’s opinion is very balanced and fair. McLaren accepts the that the FIA World Motor Sport Council had no alternative other than to find that there was a purely technical breach by reason of the possession of certain information by one individual at his home, without McLaren’s knowledge or authority. McLaren is delighted that the World Motor Sport Council determined that this information was not used and accordingly imposed no sanction whatsoever on the team. McLaren looks forward to continuing its fight in what is the most exciting Drivers’ and Constructors’ World Championship in many years.

RON DENNIS, CHAIRMAN AND CEO, McLAREN GROUP:

There is no doubt that the past 24 days have been challenging and the tremendous support we have received from our sponsor partners and the public has been much appreciated. Moving forward McLaren wants to re-affirm our long-standing commitment to honesty and integrity and re-state that we believe we have acted correctly throughout. Now, we have Formula 1 World Championships to win. As a result we intend to move on, so as to maintain the focus and commitment required to do exactly that.

FERNANDO ALONSO:

Having only been part of McLaren for a few months I know how important today’s decision will be for everybody. I am looking forward to an exciting second half of the season and to continue our battle for both World Championships.

LEWIS HAMILTON:

Whilst it’s only my first season in Formula 1 with the team, I already know and appreciate the commitment and dedication of the people there. As a result I am pleased with today’s decision and can’t wait for the rest of the season.

Perhaps the FIA realised the mob might have stormed their Bastille, had thay imposed a penalty affecting this season?
His staff possibly had Max in a strait-jacket while the decision was made

Some spin Warney woudl be proud of from Mclaren.

Here's what the FIA actually said;

There is insufficient evidence that this information was used in such a way as to interfere improperly with the FIA Formula One World Championship

Here's what Mclaren said

McLaren is delighted that the World Motor Sport Council determined that this information was not used

There is an enourmous difference between those two statements, or am I being pedantic.

I can't deny Mclaren the right to make the most of what has probably been a very unpleasant experience for them, but, given that, apparently, very senior Mclaren figures, up to Whitmarsh, were aware of Coghlans possesion of the documents, for a long time (months) before it all came out, and even then only by accident, and that at the very least they did nothing about it, I think they are very, very, lucky.

And just imagine the howls right now if it had been the red team in the dock and had walked away. I would love to see everyone who has accused Ferrari of having the FIA in their pocket apply the same critical(?) thinking to this decision.

Julian Mayo wrote:But seiously folks..........lets take a moment to boil all the dross away.
A Ferrari employee did something wrong.
A McLaren employee did something wrong.
Neither team benefitted.

We don't know for sure that McLaren didn't benefit. They were caught red-handed with the info. They didn't come forward & admit it.

If you are in possession of stolen property in "The Real World" you get charged & possibly jailed. Why not rob a bank & when you get caught plead not guilty because you haven't spent any of the money, it doesn't make sense!!!

No penalty is absurd....Fine them, reduce the amount of testing they are permitted but DO SOMETHING!!!!

Julian Mayo wrote:But seiously folks..........lets take a moment to boil all the dross away.
A Ferrari employee did something wrong.
A McLaren employee did something wrong.
Neither team benefitted.

It is very much in the bounds of believability that the Mclaren protest against the Ferrari floor design was derived from this information. Of course there will be several layers of plausible deniabilty between Coghlan and the protest, but you would think a half decent investigation could have at least established the links. Especially since Mclaren are such paragons of integrity and would have cooperated fully and openly.

Redhead wrote:

Julian Mayo wrote:But seiously folks..........lets take a moment to boil all the dross away.
A Ferrari employee did something wrong.
A McLaren employee did something wrong.
Neither team benefitted.

It is very much in the bounds of believability that the Mclaren protest against the Ferrari floor design was derived from this information. Of course there will be several layers of plausible deniabilty between Coghlan and the protest, but you would think a half decent investigation could have at least established the links. Especially since Mclaren are such paragons of integrity and would have cooperated fully and openly.

So Ferrari were cheating, or rather "exploiting a loophole", and Mclaren used illicit material to have that investigated. Boot them both out I say !!!!!!!

Julian Mayo wrote:

Redhead wrote:

Julian Mayo wrote:But seiously folks..........lets take a moment to boil all the dross away.
A Ferrari employee did something wrong.
A McLaren employee did something wrong.
Neither team benefitted.

It is very much in the bounds of believability that the Mclaren protest against the Ferrari floor design was derived from this information. Of course there will be several layers of plausible deniabilty between Coghlan and the protest, but you would think a half decent investigation could have at least established the links. Especially since Mclaren are such paragons of integrity and would have cooperated fully and openly.

So Ferrari were cheating, or rather "exploiting a loophole", and Mclaren used illicit material to have that investigated. Boot them both out I say !!!!!!!

The point is Mclaren would have benefitted, which you sort have agreed with any way so I don't know why I'm replying.

There are still many questions that remain unanswered and there is a lot of mixing between reality and what the media is saying.

If I read the FIA statement is says

The WMSC is satisfied that Vodafone McLaren Mercedes was in possession of confidential Ferrari information and is therefore in breach of article 151c of the International Sporting Code. However, there is insufficient evidence that this information was used in such a way as to interfere improperly with the FIA Formula One World Championship. We therefore impose no penalty

This is very vague (typical FIA). But what is the confidential information ? And who had it ? Coughlan remains a McLaren employee and if he had that infomation it could be said that McLaren was in possession.
The second part is even more difficult to understand, but it can be read that while McLaren (through Coughlan) had the information, it wasn't used by McLaren (as Coughlan kept it in his apartment).

I am not trying to defend McLaren but surely if Coughlan had passed that information to anyone else at McLaren he would have said so. After all he will most certainly be fired from McLaren.
Also if anyone at McLaren knew about this then they should have and would have been penalised. I hope the FIA does release the arguments for and against to see if anyone else at McLaren knew. I wouldn't just beleive a reporter that said Whitmarsh knew.

And I can't agree with the Bank robbery analogy. I'll go by what I've read so far and to me it is clear that only Coughlan had the information.
If anyone else at McLaren knew and didn't uncover it they should go whoever they are.

(I wouldn't be too worried about Alonso The Cute though. He would go to some other team and would still win the Championship - I imagine he takes the points with him )

JayVee wrote:There are still many questions that remain unanswered and there is a lot of mixing between reality and what the media is saying.

If I read the FIA statement is says

The WMSC is satisfied that Vodafone McLaren Mercedes was in possession of confidential Ferrari information and is therefore in breach of article 151c of the International Sporting Code. However, there is insufficient evidence that this information was used in such a way as to interfere improperly with the FIA Formula One World Championship. We therefore impose no penalty

This is very vague (typical FIA). But what is the confidential information ? And who had it ? Coughlan remains a McLaren employee and if he had that infomation it could be said that McLaren was in possession.
The second part is even more difficult to understand, but it can be read that while McLaren (through Coughlan) had the information, it wasn't used by McLaren (as Coughlan kept it in his apartment).

I am not trying to defend McLaren but surely if Coughlan had passed that information to anyone else at McLaren he would have said so. After all he will most certainly be fired from McLaren.
Also if anyone at McLaren knew about this then they should have and would have been penalised. I hope the FIA does release the arguments for and against to see if anyone else at McLaren knew. I wouldn't just beleive a reporter that said Whitmarsh knew.

And I can't agree with the Bank robbery analogy. I'll go by what I've read so far and to me it is clear that only Coughlan had the information.
If anyone else at McLaren knew and didn't uncover it they should go whoever they are.

(I wouldn't be too worried about Alonso The Cute though. He would go to some other team and would still win the Championship - I imagine he takes the points with him )

The Bank robbery analogy was a bit simplistic but if McLaren had the info in their possession;

"The WMSC is satisfied that Vodafone McLaren Mercedes was in possession of confidential Ferrari information and is therefore in breach of article 151c of the International Sporting Code"

This isn't vague. As stated they have breached the code/broken the rules/done a no no etc etc etc. Why oh Why have they not then been punished?

You've either broken the rules or you haven't. If you haven't then you don't get punished, you can't have broken the rules and then not be punished. It's totally illogical!!!! (Maybe i shouldn't be surprised)

If they honestly didn't use the info, then, as I posted before don't dock points, suspend them etc but you MUST have some form of penalty for a breach of the rules. Especially when it is as serious as this.

A LARGE fine & the immediate termination of employment of ALL those involved should be an absolute minimum!!!

Julian Mayo wrote:But seiously folks..........lets take a moment to boil all the dross away.
A Ferrari employee did something wrong.
A McLaren employee did something wrong.
Neither team benefitted.
Keelhaul the pair of buggas, hang draw n quarter them, and then lets get on with the business praying for intermittant downpours at all of the races

I agree. At this point no further action will be fair to either team...

Julian Mayo wrote:

Snowy wrote:Not very fair. Either they are responsible for their workforce (particularly senior staff) and were in possession and are guilty or they are not. They can't only be guilty if they actually use the material to improve their performance?! Surely this is a whitewash (no offense to those of you who are white ).

I'm sorta light brownish....should I be offended or not?????

Perhaps lightly

Julian Mayo wrote:Perhaps the FIA realised the mob might have stormed their Bastille, had thay imposed a penalty affecting this season?
His staff possibly had Max in a strait-jacket while the decision was made

FIA still holds the Excalibur, poised to strike if necessary