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Sounds spot on Jim. I will back you up if the trampling hordes get too much.

rah wrote:Sounds spot on Jim. I will back you up if the trampling hordes get too much.

My contention is that it is about 5 years too soon to even consider grouping Alsoran and Kimi with the greats, I can barely tolerate Schumaker being mentioned in the same breath as The Greats, and then extremely begrudgingly, and only thru his sheer weight of wins, NOT his ability.
My Greats are determined by factors such as winning against the odds, winning in inferior machinery thru superior skill, not winning but exhibiting unusual ability, standing out on a track in atrocious conditions , courage and coolheadedness. There are very few in my list of greats.

Normally, I'd add a few words to whatever julian says, but...I'll stand by the postings I've made in this thread, especially the ones between myself and julian.

I Like what you said Jim but I can't see Michael this year as a great and I think Kimi has a problem being tough on his equipment.

Trulli has surprised me too!

I haven't seen Danica race but from what I hear she is good. Lets hope she gets a decent test.

julian, I agree caliing Alonso and Kimi greats may be a bit early but Alonso is clearly on his way to be one. Just remember Imola, remember Monaco and just last Sunday putting those amazing laps and then remember his age!!

And why Alsoran ?

JayVee wrote:I Like what you said Jim but I can't see Michael this year as a great and I think Kimi has a problem being tough on his equipment.

Trulli has surprised me too!

I haven't seen Danica race but from what I hear she is good. Lets hope she gets a decent test.

julian, I agree caliing Alonso and Kimi greats may be a bit early but Alonso is clearly on his way to be one. Just remember Imola, remember Monaco and just last Sunday putting those amazing laps and then remember his age!!

And why Alsoran ?

Lets see how good he is after he has his BIG accident, every F1 pilot has one, one mark of greatness is how quick they are afterwards.
Alsoran? It worked,didn't it

julian mayo wrote: Lets see how good he is after he has his BIG accident, every F1 pilot has one, one mark of greatness is how quick they are afterwards.
Alsoran? It worked,didn't it

Brazil '03. Huge crash yet finish 3rd (another sign of a great, thanks!)

JayVee wrote:

julian mayo wrote: Lets see how good he is after he has his BIG accident, every F1 pilot has one, one mark of greatness is how quick they are afterwards.
Alsoran? It worked,didn't it

Brazil '03. Huge crash yet finish 3rd (another sign of a great, thanks!)

Huge crash yet finish third ???????????
A huge crash - BIG accident sees the driver cross the finish line in an ambulance, not behind the wheel!!!!!!

julian mayo wrote:

rah wrote:Sounds spot on Jim. I will back you up if the trampling hordes get too much.

My contention is that it is about 5 years too soon to even consider grouping Alsoran and Kimi with the greats, I can barely tolerate Schumaker being mentioned in the same breath as The Greats, and then extremely begrudgingly, and only thru his sheer weight of wins, NOT his ability.
My Greats are determined by factors such as winning against the odds, winning in inferior machinery thru superior skill, not winning but exhibiting unusual ability, standing out on a track in atrocious conditions , courage and coolheadedness. There are very few in my list of greats.

I know what you are saying, but kimi and alonso do have the mark. I think we will se a lot of competition between them in coming years.

Not putting MS in with the greats is a crime in my books. His ability is what made him stand out against all others of his time. Just remember what Ferrari was like before he joined. In my opinion, no other driver he was competing against could have done what he has done.

rah wrote:

julian mayo wrote:

rah wrote:Sounds spot on Jim. I will back you up if the trampling hordes get too much.

My contention is that it is about 5 years too soon to even consider grouping Alsoran and Kimi with the greats, I can barely tolerate Schumaker being mentioned in the same breath as The Greats, and then extremely begrudgingly, and only thru his sheer weight of wins, NOT his ability.
My Greats are determined by factors such as winning against the odds, winning in inferior machinery thru superior skill, not winning but exhibiting unusual ability, standing out on a track in atrocious conditions , courage and coolheadedness. There are very few in my list of greats.

I know what you are saying, but kimi and alonso do have the mark. I think we will se a lot of competition between them in coming years.

Not putting MS in with the greats is a crime in my books. His ability is what made him stand out against all others of his time. Just remember what Ferrari was like before he joined. In my opinion, no other driver he was competing against could have done what he has done.

I don't think IMHO that there was much competition around, team wise. I think he had a charmed run.

You can only measure a person by the people around him. You could almost say the same thing about Mick Doohan or Rossi. Sometimes a persons talent can make their competitors talent seem a little lacking. Doesn't mean it is, it just looks that way.

rah wrote:You can only measure a person by the people around him. You could almost say the same thing about Mick Doohan or Rossi. Sometimes a persons talent can make their competitors talent seem a little lacking. Doesn't mean it is, it just looks that way.

Permit me to disagree. Doohan ran against some of the best talent possible. IE ., Gardner Schwantz, Rainey, and several other top riders, during the course of his career. Apart from his skill, Mick was not short on, in the size of the testosterone factory. Rossi falls ino the "Schuey" category, these last 2 years especially. Biaggi, Sete etc are capable riders, no more.. IMHO.

julian mayo wrote:

rah wrote:You can only measure a person by the people around him. You could almost say the same thing about Mick Doohan or Rossi. Sometimes a persons talent can make their competitors talent seem a little lacking. Doesn't mean it is, it just looks that way.

Permit me to disagree. Doohan ran against some of the best talent possible. IE ., Gardner Schwantz, Rainey, and several other top riders, during the course of his career. Apart from his skill, Mick was not short on, in the size of the testosterone factory. Rossi falls ino the "Schuey" category, these last 2 years especially. Biaggi, Sete etc are capable riders, no more.. IMHO.

How could I not let you disagree? But Mick only got to the top of his game when the other riders went off theirs. 94 when he won his first championship, was the last year Schwantz was a threat. The only real threat after that was Dazza. But only for a few years. I think Rainey's last year was 93.

And Rossi is a freak. He would be fast in anything against anyone. Of course he learnt from the best.

rah wrote:

julian mayo wrote:

rah wrote:You can only measure a person by the people around him. You could almost say the same thing about Mick Doohan or Rossi. Sometimes a persons talent can make their competitors talent seem a little lacking. Doesn't mean it is, it just looks that way.

Permit me to disagree. Doohan ran against some of the best talent possible. IE ., Gardner Schwantz, Rainey, and several other top riders, during the course of his career. Apart from his skill, Mick was not short on, in the size of the testosterone factory. Rossi falls ino the "Schuey" category, these last 2 years especially. Biaggi, Sete etc are capable riders, no more.. IMHO.

How could I not let you disagree? But Mick only got to the top of his game when the other riders went off theirs. 94 when he won his first championship, was the last year Schwantz was a threat. The only real threat after that was Dazza. But only for a few years. I think Rainey's last year was 93.

And Rossi is a freak. He would be fast in anything against anyone. Of course he learnt from the best.

Or, perhaps, "only got to the top of his game BECAUSE the others...."

julian mayo wrote: Huge crash yet finish third ???????????
A huge crash - BIG accident sees the driver cross the finish line in an ambulance, not behind the wheel!!!!!!

He was taken to hospital julian and it was a bad crash but still finished 3rd. I told you a mark of a great

JayVee wrote:

julian mayo wrote: Huge crash yet finish third ???????????
A huge crash - BIG accident sees the driver cross the finish line in an ambulance, not behind the wheel!!!!!!

He was taken to hospital julian and it was a bad crash but still finished 3rd. I told you a mark of a great

Okay, we all know that Ozbears are a tad slow, I did not see the race, I assume he ran into someone after he crossed the line . My defiition of a bad crash is, a burn or a break that costs at least 4 races. how many did he miss?