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Ferfari dont use true team spirit to win grand prixs and achieve sucsess, instead they rely on money and the FIA to continuosly treat them like the only ones.

I agree with sgd that the McLaren boys will beat Ferrari, if the teams wealth and speed were equal

adz_619 wrote: the McLaren boys will beat Ferrari, if the teams wealth and speed were equal

They beat Ferrari anyway...

Dear Ferrari haters: the rules for racing are not that complicated; they cover measurable items like engine size, bodywork and chassis arrangements, tyres, etc.

It appears that building your own test track and running on it or building a wind tunnel, or spending large amounts of time and money trying to find the most talented engineers, designers, team members and drivers and, having found them, protecting your investment by paying them well and employing lawyers to remind them of the terms of their employment, are all things some would like to eliminate in the interest of "fairness" or "sport."

Of course that would result in something like the IRL or the Champ Car Series in the U.S. Even there, however, the richer teams appear to win more races than the poorer ones.

How odd that this season, if nothing else, isn't a perfect example of how even the most clever strategies and the largest expenditure of funds can't guarantee winning. MacLaren and Renault are fighting it out for the title and they are NOT the biggest spenders in F1.

F1 posts the rules and tries to enforce them (never mind that they are currently driving themselves and most of the teams nuts because they can't decide what the rules MEAN). To the extent they stay out of poking their noses into what happens in the teams off the race track, in the interest of "faireness" or "entertainment value" the better off they are.

And why is that, you ask? Because real rules are simple; they cover MEASURABLE items and they are enforced with MEASURING DEVICES. People can and will (witness B.A.R.) try to get round them to get an advantage. When they're caught they pay.

But whining about Ferrari's (or anyone else's) testing and budget and strategy is like Rubens' whining about not being "allowed" to race Michael: if you don't like it, beat it ON THE RACETRACK. If you can't [or won't] do it, then shut up. If Rubens consistently beat Michael, race in and race out; out-qualified and out-placed him, do you seriously think Ferrari would fire him and keep Michael Number One?

Indeed, Rubens has lately been saying that he deserves his own shot at winning a title and that he thinks he can do it with B.A.R. next year (a team that is, by the by, no slouch in spending cash!).

I say, go to it little Rube. My personal hunch is that you'll be a slightly better team mate to Jenson than little Tak has been. In the end of your career, though, my hunch is that you'll have more points and more victories in red cars from Maranello than in all the others put together. And you can go back to Brazil with no one to blame but yourself because you had five or six years when you were in the best car money could buy.

p.s. why do I think Jenson will NOT be with Williams next year? Because he's more interested in winning than fairness. I call that racing; you call it unsporting and cheating. I say if you want to see a bunch of sporting types running at high speed and changing first place like a roulette wheel, tune in to NASCAR. But please, don't think that money doesn't buy wins and points, even in that farce.

Jim Watt

adz_619 wrote:Ferfari dont use true team spirit to win grand prixs and achieve sucsess, instead they rely on money and the FIA to continuosly treat them like the only ones.

I agree with sgd that the McLaren boys will beat Ferrari, if the teams wealth and speed were equal

Unless you are him, related to him, or being held prisoner by SGD, he payed you how much??

Jim Watt said it all.

At least 6 teams have enough financial background and technical knowledge to win a Championship. FERRARI had a great budget before Michael and Rory and Ross and Jean and others came. They had Nigel and Alain to name but 2 drivers. They were hopeless of winning a Championship then.

This year is a tyre year more than ever before. FERRARI had the right tyre for 1 GP. While its not all Bridgestones fault, most of the lack of performance is.

SGD and others should enjoy their time without FERRARI victories, they will be back sooner than you like........

And remember, what would F1 be without FERRARI? I think it would be something like Baywatch without Pam, or Dallas without JR...

F1greyhound wrote:Jim Watt said it all.

At least 6 teams have enough financial background and technical knowledge to win a Championship. FERRARI had a great budget before Michael and Rory and Ross and Jean and others came. They had Nigel and Alain to name but 2 drivers. They were hopeless of winning a Championship then.

This year is a tyre year more than ever before. FERRARI had the right tyre for 1 GP. While its not all Bridgestones fault, most of the lack of performance is.

SGD and others should enjoy their time without FERRARI victories, they will be back sooner than you like........

And remember, what would F1 be without FERRARI? I think it would be something like Baywatch without Pam, or Dallas without JR...

.......the forum without JV

julian mayo wrote:

F1greyhound wrote:Jim Watt said it all.

At least 6 teams have enough financial background and technical knowledge to win a Championship. FERRARI had a great budget before Michael and Rory and Ross and Jean and others came. They had Nigel and Alain to name but 2 drivers. They were hopeless of winning a Championship then.

This year is a tyre year more than ever before. FERRARI had the right tyre for 1 GP. While its not all Bridgestones fault, most of the lack of performance is.

SGD and others should enjoy their time without FERRARI victories, they will be back sooner than you like........

And remember, what would F1 be without FERRARI? I think it would be something like Baywatch without Pam, or Dallas without JR...

.......the forum without JV

U have to add ur 20cents to that ,dont u

julian mayo wrote:

adz_619 wrote:Ferfari dont use true team spirit to win grand prixs and achieve sucsess, instead they rely on money and the FIA to continuosly treat them like the only ones.

I agree with sgd that the McLaren boys will beat Ferrari, if the teams wealth and speed were equal

Unless you are him, related to him, or being held prisoner by SGD, he payed you how much??

Exactly,how much????

Kapel wrote:

julian mayo wrote:

F1greyhound wrote:Jim Watt said it all.

At least 6 teams have enough financial background and technical knowledge to win a Championship. FERRARI had a great budget before Michael and Rory and Ross and Jean and others came. They had Nigel and Alain to name but 2 drivers. They were hopeless of winning a Championship then.

This year is a tyre year more than ever before. FERRARI had the right tyre for 1 GP. While its not all Bridgestones fault, most of the lack of performance is.

SGD and others should enjoy their time without FERRARI victories, they will be back sooner than you like........

And remember, what would F1 be without FERRARI? I think it would be something like Baywatch without Pam, or Dallas without JR...

.......the forum without JV

U have to add ur 20cents to that ,dont u

yes

Jim Watt wrote: Dear Ferrari haters: the rules for racing are not that complicated; they cover measurable items like engine size, bodywork and chassis arrangements, tyres, etc.

It appears that building your own test track and running on it or building a wind tunnel, or spending large amounts of time and money trying to find the most talented engineers, designers, team members and drivers and, having found them, protecting your investment by paying them well and employing lawyers to remind them of the terms of their employment, are all things some would like to eliminate in the interest of "fairness" or "sport."

Of course that would result in something like the IRL or the Champ Car Series in the U.S. Even there, however, the richer teams appear to win more races than the poorer ones.

How odd that this season, if nothing else, isn't a perfect example of how even the most clever strategies and the largest expenditure of funds can't guarantee winning. MacLaren and Renault are fighting it out for the title and they are NOT the biggest spenders in F1.

F1 posts the rules and tries to enforce them (never mind that they are currently driving themselves and most of the teams nuts because they can't decide what the rules MEAN). To the extent they stay out of poking their noses into what happens in the teams off the race track, in the interest of "faireness" or "entertainment value" the better off they are.

And why is that, you ask? Because real rules are simple; they cover MEASURABLE items and they are enforced with MEASURING DEVICES. People can and will (witness B.A.R.) try to get round them to get an advantage. When they're caught they pay.

But whining about Ferrari's (or anyone else's) testing and budget and strategy is like Rubens' whining about not being "allowed" to race Michael: if you don't like it, beat it ON THE RACETRACK. If you can't [or won't] do it, then shut up. If Rubens consistently beat Michael, race in and race out; out-qualified and out-placed him, do you seriously think Ferrari would fire him and keep Michael Number One?

Indeed, Rubens has lately been saying that he deserves his own shot at winning a title and that he thinks he can do it with B.A.R. next year (a team that is, by the by, no slouch in spending cash!).

I say, go to it little Rube. My personal hunch is that you'll be a slightly better team mate to Jenson than little Tak has been. In the end of your career, though, my hunch is that you'll have more points and more victories in red cars from Maranello than in all the others put together. And you can go back to Brazil with no one to blame but yourself because you had five or six years when you were in the best car money could buy.

p.s. why do I think Jenson will NOT be with Williams next year? Because he's more interested in winning than fairness. I call that racing; you call it unsporting and cheating. I say if you want to see a bunch of sporting types running at high speed and changing first place like a roulette wheel, tune in to NASCAR. But please, don't think that money doesn't buy wins and points, even in that farce.

Jim Watt

I would like to tell you Jim that this is a reasonable post but after reading it a couple of times you seem to contradict yourself. But first let me tell you that McLaren is a big spender, perhaps just behind Toyota and Ferrari (but those two pay Ralf and Michael a lot of money ). Renault isn't, actually their budget is near half of those 3 and that says a lot about how effiicient their operation is.

On fairness, early in your post you say

even the most clever strategies and the largest expenditure of funds can't guarantee winning

But then at the end you say

But please, don't think that money doesn't buy wins and points

Call me naive or primitive but I would like to see Formula 1 run fairly and until it is proven otherwise, only Ferrari doesn't run their operation in a fair way.
What seems to be commonly accepted as "fair" outside the Ferrari camp is that team-mates fight each other until one has no realistic chance of winning the title then the losing team-mate shouldn't take away points from the other.

On Barrichello, the poor guy doesn't get to test the car as much as Michael, gets the new car later than Michael, doesn't get access to the spare car (except in Brazil) - these are the known differences, imagine the effort that goes into Michael's garage compared to Rubens and then you expect Rubens to match and beat Michael. Be fair

F1greyhound wrote: SGD and others should enjoy their time without FERRARI victories, they will be back sooner than you like........

I decided not to post here for a while about the incredible fair ferrari team...
maybe one reson was this one... yeah!!!!!!! I AM ENJOYING IT!!!!!!!!!! and you cannot imagine how!!!!!!!!!!! seeing McLaren 1st and Ferari 4th in the world championship will be just great, i'll have a big party!!!
CHEAT DO NOT PAY!!!!!

did you read Montemezolo's comments about the F1 rules????? that's just unbelievable, they put the rules, now he says THAT BS.... the tyres has been very important for many years... HOW DID THEY WON THE 2004 WC??????? because bridgeston was superior!!! now you read that he says, and you can only feel sorry for such an unprofessional people....

it so sorry to see them so fear... poor ferrari they were saying that it's not them, that it's bridgestone... so why Jordan and Minardi didn't slow down as well?? now they say the tyre rules are the bad ones....
They just cannot say, "we got it bad" why? I won't tell you!
they certanly never knew how to win in a beautiful way, they neither know how to lose like real man, call it gentlemen or sportive way... like a fearful child point to other... that's a sorry view...miserable.

Sgd,I'm amused with the explaination u give for critising & showing ur jealously towards Ferrari.
Ever wondered, y every Ferrari fan in this forum would rather discuss the same issue with JayVee than with u???...cos ur plain jealous.According to you all things that go wrong in F1 nowaday or in past ,is done by Ferrari.
I'm still looking for the post,hoping to see one from u saying Kimi's or Mclarens misfortunes this year is b'cos he's or they are distracted by Ferrari news of signing him for 2007

Get a life...

Kapel wrote:Sgd,I'm amused with the explaination u give for critising & showing ur jealously towards Ferrari.
Ever wondered, y every Ferrari fan in this forum would rather discuss the same issue with JayVee than with u???...cos ur plain jealous.According to you all things that go wrong in F1 nowaday or in past ,is done by Ferrari.
I'm still looking for the post,hoping to see one from u saying Kimi's or Mclarens misfortunes this year is b'cos he's or they are distracted by Ferrari news of signing him for 2007

Get a life...

____________________________
Just an Idiot

Kapel wrote: ...showing ur jealously towards Ferrari....

...cos ur plain jealous.According to you all things that go wrong in F1 nowaday or in past ,is done by Ferrari.
I'm still looking for the post,hoping to see one from u saying Kimi's or Mclarens misfortunes this year is b'cos he's or they are distracted by Ferrari news of signing him for 2007

Get a life...

Hi! so i'm jealous?? interesting theory! but so I cannot undertand why I didn't bacome a Ferrari fan... if I'm jealous is because i thing they are some-how better....some-how better then, then what??? Look: I bagan to see F1 not too much time ago, I had no bias, NO BIAS, the interest on F1 arrised because I got (involuntary) bounded to F1... and they I began to see the Ferrari tactics with Barichello, manipulating the FIA, and other thinks i wrote before, and then i though "and that do the great team ferrari??" "How a great, with such a history team like Ferrari can be so unsoprtive??" i see all that like a sort of "legal cheat", manipulating the rule-maker is cheat FULL POINT. Now you see Montemezolo saying the rules are bad... Do you think those rules became real without ferrari agreement??? please!!

about saying that Kimi misfortunes are because of ferrari, that is stupid nonsense, be pleased to note that I've not be present in none of the conspiracy theories clubs... even against Rubens, there was not any conspiracy against him in ferrari, it's just that his car got less work, less atenttion, and that's it... I have not said ferrari's acts harm directly other teams, that would be stupid because too risky, that's not Todt's modus operandis...


Now i wonder... why you all became ferrari fans??? just because it was the winning team??? poor babes! easy way isn't it? "i'm fan of the team which wins"...

I have been following Ferrari since the eighties mate. If that makes you feel better.

And can someone please let me know what this complete rubish about Rubens and others having a lesser car than the number one driver in the team. Absolute rubbish. Teams do not spend multi millions on development and only spend time on one car. Maybe a long time ago, but not these days.

I am looking forward to seein Rubens race at BAR, but his status as the support driver for MS is his fault alone. He signed the contract knowing full well what he was getting himself into.