Monaco Grand Prix (Raikkonen wins!)

Ed · Post by Ed » Thu May 19, 2005 11:02 pm

Session is over and Alonso remains fastest ahead of Wurz and Coulthard.
Fisichella, Montoya, Raikkonen, Liuzzi and Massa make the top 8.

Full results

Ed · Post by Ed » Thu May 19, 2005 11:04 pm

K-D wrote:Kindly go to Ferrari pit and check on Michael's possible trouble, problems will throw a spanner in the works.

We will and report back

sgd · Post by **sgd** » Thu May 19, 2005 11:07 pm

Friechaser still faster then both jordans!!

Monteiro & Karthy must be very worry!

alonsofan · Post by **alonsofan** » Thu May 19, 2005 11:27 pm

before practice i said the doubters will be convinced

well alonso is more than half a second faster than his close competitors

wurz and coulthard are light i believe

sorry but sunday will be a walk in the park for the new king

alonsofan · Post by **alonsofan** » Thu May 19, 2005 11:32 pm

K-D wrote: We all have our preferred driver(s).

Currently and until he possibly retire I am with Michael Schumacher. Once he is out of F1 (if he do one day retire) I will be with Fernando Alonso.

Back in time I have liked winners and losers, favorite all time was Keke Rosberg - It will be a hard argument getting him into the best top-25 all time on talent, but he was "just the thing" for me.

I also had a soft spot for De Cesaris, Surer, Alboreto, Patrese, Regazzoni, Laffitte, Tambay.

Never really liked Senna, Prost, Lauda - But I admit that they were much better F1 drivers than "my guys".

I don't like Montoya and Raikkonen.

everyone of us likes a driver for some reason and i used to like michael when he fought for the win and when he moved to ferrari because they were not a top team but when they become the fastest car and michael having team orders in his favour all the time i stopped liking him becuase he was winning without challenge, and for me he is the type who will be pushed out

i think he should have left when he equalled fangio record and really hope he never touches senna pole record but that is my opinion

K-D · Post by **K-D** » Thu May 19, 2005 11:48 pm

I agree that Michael is the preferred driver at Ferrari. I agree that he have had races given to him courtesy of team orders.

But I absolutely, flatly refuse to agree that he is the only such driver.

No team is as single minded as Ferrari in having one un-disputed number one driver, however they have at no time hid this fact, and they have given Michael Schumacher basically everything he asked for since he joined the team.

It will be a very difficuly argument to win, stating that this have been to the detriment of the team. & WCC's and 5 WDC's speak a clear language.

In his time at Ferrari Michael Schumacher have won more races, than any driver have ever won in a career.

Mika Hakkinen was clearly the preferred driver at McLaren, and at times benefitted form teamorders.'

Kimi Raikkonen is clearly the favorite driver at McLaren niow, regardless of what Juan Pablo Montoya fans think.

Fernando Alonso is the favorite at renault and was even last year, when Jarno Trullu was outperforming him. The reason that the Jarno / Renault relationship ended as it did, was the favortism displayed by the team towards Fernando.

Basically no team give the driver equal treatment over a season, with the notable exceptionn of Williams, and thier insistance on being "old type racing people" have cost them wins and championships, and is currently souring their relationship with BMW.

I personally do not have a problem with a designated number one driver, and I prefer the open system that ferrari practise over the insistance of equality, which is not there by Renault, McLaren and BAR.

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Thu May 19, 2005 11:59 pm

K-D I still consider Keke as one of the last gentlemen of the race track. A true professional who got on with the job all the time every time., who overcame an horrific accident, went back, proved himself TO HIMSELF.,
Geez, he was bloody quick!

sgd · Post by **sgd** » Fri May 20, 2005 12:08 am

K-D wrote:I agree that Michael is the preferred driver at Ferrari. I agree that he have had races given to him courtesy of team orders.

But I absolutely, flatly refuse to agree that he is the only such driver.

No team is as single minded as Ferrari in having one un-disputed number one driver, however they have at no time hid this fact, and they have given Michael Schumacher basically everything he asked for since he joined the team.

It will be a very difficuly argument to win, stating that this have been to the detriment of the team. & WCC's and 5 WDC's speak a clear language.

In his time at Ferrari Michael Schumacher have won more races, than any driver have ever won in a career.

Mika Hakkinen was clearly the preferred driver at McLaren, and at times benefitted form teamorders.'

Kimi Raikkonen is clearly the favorite driver at McLaren niow, regardless of what Juan Pablo Montoya fans think.

Fernando Alonso is the favorite at renault and was even last year, when Jarno Trullu was outperforming him. The reason that the Jarno / Renault relationship ended as it did, was the favortism displayed by the team towards Fernando.

Basically no team give the driver equal treatment over a season, with the notable exceptionn of Williams, and thier insistance on being "old type racing people" have cost them wins and championships, and is currently souring their relationship with BMW.

I personally do not have a problem with a designated number one driver, and I prefer the open system that ferrari practise over the insistance of equality, which is not there by Renault, McLaren and BAR.

We talk about Barichello being banned to overtake Shumierda!!
you want to say Montoya's forbiden to overtake Kimi, that's.... nonsense!!!
A true racer doesn;t like team orders!!! a true recer want to RACE!!! and the real reca for a F1 recer is vs your teammate!! a real racer don't want to be just allowed to win as MShumierda is!! that is

alonsofan · Post by **alonsofan** » Fri May 20, 2005 12:09 am

i never said he is the only driver, i just said why i stopped liking him was because his wins were not challenging, when you have a car stronger than other cars and a team-mate who cannot race you, to me it means no fun,

but as for your comments,

hakkinen did once if i remember benefit from team orders and once didn't

trulli was allowed to go because of drop in his performance, look at his record last year and it is better to explain that way rather than label as favouritism to alonso

when trulli gave a place to barrichello in france, that was a big mistake

also if trulli left becuase of alonso favouritism they wouldn't be friends but they are

and this year fisichella won the first race because of the weather but alonso beat him in the following races, last race in spain fisichella could have finished ahead so there is no favouritism

just becuase ferrari and michael accept such doesn't mean everyone else does it and try to find any reason to label others doing the same

when fisichella is told to let alonso pass then you tell me he is favoured
same with raikkonen too

sgd · Post by **sgd** » Fri May 20, 2005 12:09 am

Beyond Perfection

Technology in F1 is vast and also used to gauge many things during testing and the race weekend. In Monaco 1988, the lap simulator calculated that the fastest and most perfect lap around the streets would be 1:25.300.

Alain Prost managed a qualifying lap time of 1:25.425, 125 thousandth's off the perfect lap, so basically, Prost had achieved the perfect lap to within, less than a blink of an eye. This time set Prost on pole position and it was over 1 second quicker than Berger's Ferrari.

Many had settled for Prost's time as pole, though Senna was still to qualify. Senna had this innate skill, believe and ability to know what he can achieve. Senna left the pits and his 1st lap, Senna did not manage to beat Prost's time, but came awfully close. Senna's 2nd lap beat Prost's time and it could have been argued that the 1:25.376 was the closest to the perfect lap any driver would be, only 76 thousandth's off. Senna could have stopped, since he would have been informed of his lap time and need not continue, but he did three more laps, 1:25.100, 1:24.500 and 1:23.998. Those three laps were quicker each time by ? second. Senna's qualifying (and pole position) time was a little under 1? seconds quicker than Prost and a little over 1? seconds quicker than the perfect lap!
...
Later, Senna would describe the series of laps as peaceful, and trance like. On his fifth lap he knew it was time to stop. He could go no faster...

--------
That was an apart from here: http://ajmerphull.com/formula1/ayrton_senna/senna.html :

alonsofan · Post by **alonsofan** » Fri May 20, 2005 12:12 am

sgd wrote: Alonsofan, abour Senna Quali. record, don't worry!:

Racer | No.Races | No.Pole Pos
-------------------------------------------------------------
Senna | 161 | 63
MShumierda | >215 | 65
--------------------------------------------------------------
got it?

you scared me for a second, senna is 65 and michael is 63

i know in ratio he will never be close but many people look at the number only

K-D · Post by **K-D** » Fri May 20, 2005 12:15 am

julian mayo wrote:K-D I still consider Keke as one of the last gentlemen of the race track. A true professional who got on with the job all the time every time., who overcame an horrific accident, went back, proved himself TO HIMSELF.,
Geez, he was bloody quick!

I was young and impresionable, he looked as a F1 should look. A little chubby, smoking and getting the job done.

He was an obvious talent, made it to F1 and did not really happen. Was acidently signed up by Williams and performed miracles.

Winning the WDC that season, with that car should not be possible. Circumstances happend so that it was. We lost Gilles for ever, we lost Didier for F1. But there was no way that a Cosworth Powered driver were to take the WDC in 1982.

His win in Monaco 1983 was all that a win should be. I had talked the Monaco Grand Prix up all week to my co-workers in my after school job, they all turned the Tv on on that Sunday and the one driver I had told them about performed miracles. I recall him as being more than a full minute in front by the end of lap 2.

He was a true racer, giving it his all every singel time. In todays cars, he would likely not really shine. He would I think be compareable to Montoya. Speed galore, but not the finesse needed to realy moutn a WDC challenge, wins on occasion and other times falling of trying.

Prost and McLaren sowed him that he was not in the league of prost, but that does not make him anything less in my eyes.

With a little different luck he would have led the WDC at mid-season 1983 as well. A DQ in Brazil, and being bumped out in Long Bach could have been a second and a win.

Keke ruled!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sgd · Post by **sgd** » Fri May 20, 2005 12:27 am

alonsofan wrote:
sgd wrote: Alonsofan, abour Senna Quali. record, don't worry!:

Racer | No.Races | No.Pole Pos
-------------------------------------------------------------
Senna | 161 | 63
MShumierda | >215 | 65
--------------------------------------------------------------
got it?
you scared me for a second, senna is 65 and michael is 63

i know in ratio he will never be close but many people look at the number only

sorry of course you're right...

Racer |No.Races | No.Pole Pos
-------------------------------------------------------------
Senna | 161 | 65
MShumierda| >215 | 63
--------------------------------------------------------------

K-D · Post by **K-D** » Fri May 20, 2005 12:33 am

alonsofan wrote:i never said he is the only driver, i just said why i stopped liking him was because his wins were not challenging, when you have a car stronger than other cars and a team-mate who cannot race you, to me it means no fun,

but as for your comments,

hakkinen did once if i remember benefit from team orders and once didn't

trulli was allowed to go because of drop in his performance, look at his record last year and it is better to explain that way rather than label as favouritism to alonso

when trulli gave a place to barrichello in france, that was a big mistake

also if trulli left becuase of alonso favouritism they wouldn't be friends but they are

and this year fisichella won the first race because of the weather but alonso beat him in the following races, last race in spain fisichella could have finished ahead so there is no favouritism

just becuase ferrari and michael accept such doesn't mean everyone else does it and try to find any reason to label others doing the same

when fisichella is told to let alonso pass then you tell me he is favoured
same with raikkonen too

I respectfully disagree.

You having answers for every single example I have would were the shoe on the other foot be prompting some here to challenge me with Ferrari-Fanboy tags.

Favrotism exsist in all teams.

sgd · Post by **sgd** » Fri May 20, 2005 12:44 am

K-D?? Hello???
Favoritism???

We talk about Barichello being banned to overtake Shumierda!! being banned to race MShumierda...
you want to say Montoya's forbidden to overtake Kimi, that's just nonsense... as your predictions of MS winning the 5 first races of the year.
Look:
A true racer doesn't like team orders!!! a true recer want to RACE!!! and the real race for a F1 racer is vs his teammate!! a real racer don't want to be just allowed to win as MShumierda is!! that is

, not a real racer!! A real racer want to BEAT his teammate, is for girls to be allowed to pass....

---