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F1greyhound wrote: Dont think LEWIS can be classified as the best Brit after the one GP - what would have happened had JENSON and him switched packages?? I for one am pretty sure JENSON is Champ material and he would have challenged FERNANDO. Dont get me wrong, as I said LEWIS was impressive, just dont like a good guy to get written off so easily:-)

I dont think so either, but the Brits are a fickle bunch when it comes to who they support.

GhoGho wrote:

F1greyhound wrote: Dont think LEWIS can be classified as the best Brit after the one GP - what would have happened had JENSON and him switched packages?? I for one am pretty sure JENSON is Champ material and he would have challenged FERNANDO. Dont get me wrong, as I said LEWIS was impressive, just dont like a good guy to get written off so easily:-)

I dont think so either, but the Brits are a fickle bunch when it comes to who they support.

I agree that it's unfair to write off Button after just a single race but it's also obvious that Hamilton knows how to handle the car. I believe that once he picks up a few more experience points he'll be faster than Button given the chance to drive identical vehicles. Button is good, no doubt but he is not 'great'. Somehow Button lacks that little 'extra' to get him over the top. Hamilton has a chance to improve himself and pass the threshold in that direction. Whether that will happen or not we'll see in due time.

F1greyhound wrote:Dont think LEWIS can be classified as the best Brit after the one GP - what would have happened had JENSON and him switched packages??

Nothing! Jenson has had his chances. IMHO, he has failed to get it done on race day, and ultimately, that is what matters most.

I for one am pretty sure JENSON is Champ material and he would have challenged FERNANDO.

Good for you for sticking by your man, but Jenson Button has never looked like he would give Fernando Alonso a stiff challenge. He has a great driving style, but lacks the fire to be champion that I've seen in Alonso, Schumacher, Hakkinen, Hill, or Mansell, and others. I have put him in the class of David Coulthard, a great racer who can win on his day, but not championship calibre against tough competition. Maybe even that is being too generous.

Dont get me wrong, as I said LEWIS was impressive, just dont like a good guy to get written off so easily:-)

gkaytaz wrote:I agree that it's unfair to write off Button after just a single race but it's also obvious that Hamilton knows how to handle the car.

Who's writing Button off after one race? I'm writing Button off after nearly 10 seasons in Formula 1! He had top gear in both of his stints with Williams. He failed to win or even challenge consistently for podiums. I believe Team Williams' records would've been very different if Alonso, Hakkinen or Schumacher had driven those cars. Button has failed to achieve in Formula 1. Take away the one win, and he looks like Martin Brundle.

Button is good, no doubt but he is not 'great'. Somehow Button lacks that little 'extra' to get him over the top.

I absolutely agree with this statement, and apparently, so does Damon Hill and John Watson. [/quote]

F1greyhound wrote:With NICK, I simply believe he doesnt have the self-confidence to get the max out of his package, he is very good if not excellent but he lacks killer instinct - it wont be easy for BMW to decide after this season who shall be replaced by SEBASTIAN, but it will be an essential move.

Heidfeld had the confidence and good sense to recognize the slide and bail out of Williams 2 years ago and go back to Sauber just in time for BMW to buy the team. This was perhaps the most heads up driver move since Jody Scheckter left Tyrrell to join Walter Wolf Racing in 1977!!

Nick Heidfeld is a very highly regarded driver who was intensely anticipated in Formula 1 much like Senna, Hakkinen, Schumacher, Johnny Herbert and, of late, Heikki Kovalainen or Lewis Hamilton. He has elevated every team on which he was a part. He is the driver who should not be so easily written off.

Unfortunately for Heidfeld, there weren't many top drives when he arrived in 2000.

Snowy wrote:I think I should keep my mouth shut But that wouldn't be like me would it?!

In response to who ever it was that claimed Lewis held up Fernando. Ha ha you wish

That was me and I am not scary

Snowy, I wish you would keep your feet on the ground and let me first say that I was impressed by Hamilton and wish him all the best even if that means he beats Alonso. That is what he is there for, to beat the best if he can. (I wish all the drivers in F1 are like that)

But the way I saw the race, it is very clear to me that Alonso was held up by Hamilton. Alonso did say that he stayed an extra lap out before his second stop because he saved fuel while behind Hamilton. This means he wasn't going as fast as he could otherwise he wouldn't be saving fuel.
Now before you jump and say how do you believe what Alonso says, I'll say fine, don't but please explain to me why is it that once Alonso got in front he dissapeared in the distance and by the end of the race he was more than 10 seconds ahead while when behind Hamilton he was never more than 2 or so seconds behind ?

And on the Hamilton euphoria, yes he was impressive but I agree with a few others, don't judge the guy from just one race. Rosberg impressed in Bahrain last year but didn't keep it up. Lets see how he does in a few more races.

BTW: Back in 1996, a young guy made his debut starting from Pole and very nearly won his debut race, he finished second cause the team told him to take it easy. His performance that day was even more impressive than Hamilton's last Sunday but despite that and despite a subsequent World Title a year later, many don't regard him highly, in fact many make fun of him and say he only did well because of the car. Go figure

Well said JAYVEE!

RE30B#16,

re.JENSON in the WILLIAMS - thats screwing the facts. The WILLIAMS BMW in his first season with RALF and JENSON was not great, similar perhaps to this years package: far from being a winner. However JENSON in his first season matched RALF in his 4th - fantastic, just like LEWIS today.

JENSON never had a No.1 or even No.2 car. In 3rd rate material(=HONDA in some years..) he was mighty impressive.

Some drivers simply never get a top notch package. DAVID had super WILLIAMS and MCLAREN material for years - and yes he proved not to be a WDC. Unfair to compare JENSONs chances to that, simply impossible.

Of course the same goes for NICK and MARK and a host of other drivers, never really having got the chance. NICK is close now but I would love to see a good mental coach with him. No good to say he expected P5 or worse in Qualifying and P4 being great in the race. It is NOT! The BMW has really great potential so NICK should actually talk of highest ambitions...

By the way RON DENNIS claiming BMW was ruining his teams chances by means of a "show run" is absolutely pathetic. I have hardly ever heard such an unsporting and stupid statement from any F1 team principal. Grow up man

There was a tad more to it than that

JayVee wrote:

Snowy wrote:I think I should keep my mouth shut But that wouldn't be like me would it?!

In response to who ever it was that claimed Lewis held up Fernando. Ha ha you wish

That was me and I am not scary

Snowy, I wish you would keep your feet on the ground and let me first say that I was impressed by Hamilton and wish him all the best even if that means he beats Alonso. That is what he is there for, to beat the best if he can. (I wish all the drivers in F1 are like that)

But the way I saw the race, it is very clear to me that Alonso was held up by Hamilton. Alonso did say that he stayed an extra lap out before his second stop because he saved fuel while behind Hamilton. This means he wasn't going as fast as he could otherwise he wouldn't be saving fuel.
Now before you jump and say how do you believe what Alonso says, I'll say fine, don't but please explain to me why is it that once Alonso got in front he dissapeared in the distance and by the end of the race he was more than 10 seconds ahead while when behind Hamilton he was never more than 2 or so seconds behind ?

And on the Hamilton euphoria, yes he was impressive but I agree with a few others, don't judge the guy from just one race. Rosberg impressed in Bahrain last year but didn't keep it up. Lets see how he does in a few more races.

BTW: Back in 1996, a young guy made his debut starting from Pole and very nearly won his debut race, he finished second cause the team told him to take it easy. His performance that day was even more impressive than Hamilton's last Sunday but despite that and despite a subsequent World Title a year later, many don't regard him highly, in fact many make fun of him and say he only did well because of the car. Go figure

A Friend of mine, who has a vast experience in racing many classes of cars n aeroplanes n waterborne craft in many countries said, after turn one, McLaren are going to have to work hard, to obey the rules, yet get Alonso ahead of Hamilton..
I said "Why......why not let the Hambone go for it?"
He patted me on the head....(cos he is old he still lives )
and said.........."sponsors dear boy......sponsors.........Denis will let the Hambone have his way mid-season".

F1greyhound wrote:Well said JAYVEE!

RE30B#16,

re.JENSON in the WILLIAMS - thats screwing the facts. The WILLIAMS BMW in his first season with RALF and JENSON was not great, similar perhaps to this years package: far from being a winner. However JENSON in his first season matched RALF in his 4th - fantastic, just like LEWIS today.

JENSON never had a No.1 or even No.2 car. In 3rd rate material(=HONDA in some years..) he was mighty impressive.

Some drivers simply never get a top notch package. DAVID had super WILLIAMS and MCLAREN material for years - and yes he proved not to be a WDC. Unfair to compare JENSONs chances to that, simply impossible.

Of course the same goes for NICK and MARK and a host of other drivers, never really having got the chance. NICK is close now but I would love to see a good mental coach with him. No good to say he expected P5 or worse in Qualifying and P4 being great in the race. It is NOT! The BMW has really great potential so NICK should actually talk of highest ambitions...

By the way RON DENNIS claiming BMW was ruining his teams chances by means of a "show run" is absolutely pathetic. I have hardly ever heard such an unsporting and stupid statement from any F1 team principal. Grow up man

Jenson matched Ralf...........

WOW :shock:

I was impressed with Lewis Hamilton but as has been pointed out by many others ... one race does not make him a champion by any stretch of the imagination. Lots of drivers have done well in their first race.
There are even some here who have slammed Jacques in previous posts but he actually got pole in his first race and then would have won it if he hadn't had an oil leak, with the team asking him to slow to conserve the car.

Julian Mayo wrote:

JayVee wrote:

Snowy wrote:I think I should keep my mouth shut But that wouldn't be like me would it?!

In response to who ever it was that claimed Lewis held up Fernando. Ha ha you wish

That was me and I am not scary

Snowy, I wish you would keep your feet on the ground and let me first say that I was impressed by Hamilton and wish him all the best even if that means he beats Alonso. That is what he is there for, to beat the best if he can. (I wish all the drivers in F1 are like that)

But the way I saw the race, it is very clear to me that Alonso was held up by Hamilton. Alonso did say that he stayed an extra lap out before his second stop because he saved fuel while behind Hamilton. This means he wasn't going as fast as he could otherwise he wouldn't be saving fuel.
Now before you jump and say how do you believe what Alonso says, I'll say fine, don't but please explain to me why is it that once Alonso got in front he dissapeared in the distance and by the end of the race he was more than 10 seconds ahead while when behind Hamilton he was never more than 2 or so seconds behind ?

And on the Hamilton euphoria, yes he was impressive but I agree with a few others, don't judge the guy from just one race. Rosberg impressed in Bahrain last year but didn't keep it up. Lets see how he does in a few more races.

BTW: Back in 1996, a young guy made his debut starting from Pole and very nearly won his debut race, he finished second cause the team told him to take it easy. His performance that day was even more impressive than Hamilton's last Sunday but despite that and despite a subsequent World Title a year later, many don't regard him highly, in fact many make fun of him and say he only did well because of the car. Go figure

A Friend of mine, who has a vast experience in racing many classes of cars n aeroplanes n waterborne craft in many countries said, after turn one, McLaren are going to have to work hard, to obey the rules, yet get Alonso ahead of Hamilton..
I said "Why......why not let the Hambone go for it?"
He patted me on the head....(cos he is old he still lives )
and said.........."sponsors dear boy......sponsors.........Denis will let the Hambone have his way mid-season".

You have a very wise old friend.

Ron has also said that the strategies favored Alonso, so no surprise that he passed Lewis during the second stop.

Julian Mayo wrote:
A Friend of mine, who has a vast experience in racing many classes of cars n aeroplanes n waterborne craft in many countries said, after turn one, McLaren are going to have to work hard, to obey the rules, yet get Alonso ahead of Hamilton..
I said "Why......why not let the Hambone go for it?"
He patted me on the head....(cos he is old he still lives )
and said.........."sponsors dear boy......sponsors.........Denis will let the Hambone have his way mid-season".

GhoGho wrote: You have a very wise old friend.

Ron has also said that the strategies favored Alonso, so no surprise that he passed Lewis during the second stop.

For sponsorship or for favouritism or for whatever reason anyone of us believes Alonso finished second (maybe it was some strange Carribean spell), that has nothing to do with what I am saying.

I am saying that I beleive (and no I am not dreaming) Alonso was held up by Hamilton simply because:
- Alonso said he saved fuel behind him
- And (this is more factual) Alonso simply drove away after he passed Hamilton at the second stop.

So whatever the strange/made up/genuine reason that made Alonso pass Hamilton at the second stop (maybe these guys aren't racers but a bunch of losers whose sole purpose in life is to just try to please sponsors - and if that is really the case, then are we so stupid to actually watch them ???) , had Hamilton been as fast, he should have and would have stayed close behind until the end of the race.

And please don't get me wrong, I am not saying Hamilton was slow. He was very close to Alonso.

Hi Jay Vee:

Fernando has two WDC's after 89 F1 races. I don't see how anyone could believe he is inferior, in any way, to Lewis Hamilton. But you'll just have to get used to the fact that people get bored with winners. Notice how many people chose Lewis for drive of the day. Hello? Kimi won, I thought that would be drive of the day for most of us. But he had the pole; he is, therefore, by some wierd science, EXPECTED to win. If he doesn't it's proof he was lucky to win all those other races he won. If he does, ho hum. What about poor Felipe? On a track where it is hard for Fernando to get round Lewis, Felipe still managed to score points. No one picked him for drive of the day either.

Same went for Michael. Same will go, now, for Fernando. In fact, if he hasn't won a race by June, (not an impossibility, even if it is improbable) people will be saying it was the Renault that won those WDC's FOR him.

Never mind that Fisi was in the same car; never mind that Fisi is in one now. And not making lovable Flavio too happy.

Indeed, given how well the McLaren was running, who's to say Heikki couldn't have scored a podium had he been in that seat rather than his unfortunate Yellow one? Nobody gets to F1 with out a rather impressive skill set. Even Ralphie has a collection of trophies.

Just keep posting "back to back WDC" in front of Fernando's name. It'll drive your critics mad. It won't however, improve the quality of their pole n' 8 picks!

Cheers

Jim Watt

Julian,

I think we all know your rating of RALF....However he is very quick at times as he proved at WILLIAMS(JORDAN, TOYOTA) where he was at least on par with JUAN. Remember RALF fighting with MICHAEL in some of those races and even beating him(and the field)?? Yeah, I know, RALF is nothing and MARK is great. Ha ha, if you want this sort of comparison, how can MARK really be rated against a multiple GP winner?? Anyway, it was no mean feat of JENSON in his 1st!! season(managing a podium in 3rd rate material..) to match RALF in his 4th....whatever you say, my friend..)

RON is getting better all the time, now they are even complaining about a flexible undercar at FERRARI. Why not complain about BMW or RENAULT??
Ridiculous, really.

By the way do I have to mention that if MICHAEL had been in FERNANDOs place or both MCLAREN guys at FERRARI many folks on this forum would have claimed there was an application of team order?? Oh maybe there was team order - at FERRARI(probably due to a phone call from MICHAEL or a passage in his contract to guarantee KIMI the famous No.1 status )))

Wait a minute everyone!

I believe I may have started all this business about judging a guy after one race when I suggested Lewis Hamilton was the top Brit in F1 now over Jenson Button.

To clarify, the driver I am really judging is Jenson Button who has been in Formula 1 nearly a decade, and struggles to this day to finish races. Let me remind you that Hamilton, a rookie, finished 3rd only 18.5 seconds behind winner Kimi Raikkonen in his maiden F1 race on a track the teams don't regularly test on. Button, starting his 5th season with the same team, finished 2 laps down in 15th, one lap behind his teammate. Get the picture?

As for remarks about Button's lack of top notch equipment, Fernando Alonso and Mark Webber were impressive in their Minardis which would've had no chance of a podium finish without something wacky happening in the race. Button looked okay in his first season for Williams [2000], and he looked good again 3 years ago with BAR when he finished 3rd in the championship [2004]. Consistency wins championships, and Button has been inconsistent at best. To my knowledge, he has never won a championship even in the junior formulae.

So saffice it to say, yes, the jury is still out on Hamilton. My point is he has really set the bar high for Jenson Button if Button wants to still be considered top Brit in F1.