The 2006 British Formula 1 GP (Alonso wins)

[RE30B#16]

A strange Thread, indeed. It appears that people actually get more excited when it's a Red parade than they do when it's a Blue one!

At least the hated Scuderia incites emotion when they dominate. As they still do, even when they merely race well. Michael's drive, for instance, at Silverstone, had it been turn for turn and lap for lap Identical, only turned in by Webber or Rossberg in the Williams or even Jenson Button in the Honda, would have generated an immense tide of commentary and exhaltation. This thread would have been alive with "I told you so's" and predictions of a New WDC toute suite.

As it is, because second place is taken by SEVEN TIME WDC Michael Schumacher, everyone yawns and says, "Ho Hum. Of course evil Michael, driving for Ferrari --which is especially favored by the FIA and the Gods themselves-- is merely up to his usual nasty tricks, finding yet another way to steal championship points. Probably Fisi was napping and Michael stole is fifth gear or something. He couldn't POSSIBLY have driven a good race."

However, thank the racing Gods, this is the real world of F1, where drivers in clearly inferior cars (like Kimi and Michael) still manage to score points whereas their team-mates find excuses.

Let's try a thought experiment: since Fisi was driving a Renault at Silverstone and since it is evidently revealed truth that the Renault team do not play favorites, his machine was as well prepared as Fernando's. Now suppose the driver of that second Renault had been Kimi Raikkonen, or Michael Schumacher. Do you believe the results would have been the same? Or Michael? Heck, I think even Nico would have made the podium and I'm certain Mark Webber would have as well.

[RE30B#16]

At least the hated Scuderia incites emotion when they dominate. As they still do, even when they merely race well. Michael's drive, for instance, at Silverstone, had it been turn for turn and lap for lap Identical, only turned in by Webber or Rossberg in the Williams or even Jenson Button in the Honda, would have generated an immense tide of commentary and exhaltation. This thread would have been alive with "I told you so's" and predictions of a New WDC toute suite.

No one hates the Scuderia, we hate Michael Schumacher!!

As it is, because second place is taken by SEVEN TIME WDC Michael Schumacher, everyone yawns and says, "Ho Hum. Of course evil Michael, driving for Ferrari --which is especially favored by the FIA and the Gods themselves-- is merely up to his usual nasty tricks, finding yet another way to steal championship points. Probably Fisi was napping and Michael stole is fifth gear or something. He couldn't POSSIBLY have driven a good race."

Who's ho humming Schuey's 2nd place? He beat the ever exalted Kimi Raikkonen, after all!! Leave Fisico out of it. Are you saying the Renault chassis is so good a monkey could drive it to victory?

However, thank the racing Gods, this is the real world of F1, where drivers in clearly inferior cars (like Kimi and Michael) still manage to score points whereas their team-mates find excuses.

Clearly inferior? Jim, where can I get some of what you're smoking! The McLaren is not an inferior chassis [it was designed by genius Adrian Newey]. Neither is the Ferrari. Ferrari has tire manufacturer issues. How many times have you heard Raikkonen and Montoya complain about the Mercedes not being equal to the pace of the Ferrari or the Renault engine? Almost every race.

Let's try a thought experiment: since Fisi was driving a Renault at Silverstone and since it is evidently revealed truth that the Renault team do not play favorites, his machine was as well prepared as Fernando's. Now suppose the driver of that second Renault had been Kimi Raikkonen, or Michael Schumacher. Do you believe the results would have been the same? Or Michael? Heck, I think even Nico would have made the podium and I'm certain Mark Webber would have as well.

Look, Fisichella and Alonso have divergent driving styles and like their cars set up very differently. Last year, the team was set up more for Fisichella's style until Alonso started winning everywhere. As you recall, Flavio and company asked Alonso to change how he drove so that he could get the best out of the car. Obviously, this year the car is worked to favor the World Champion's driving style. It only makes sense. No team orders, just a team playing to their strength. Would Ferrari tell Michael Schumacher to use Felipe Massa's set ups? Heck, no! Team orders or no team orders, that team is going to be set up around Schumacher.

Alonso and Fisico are like Prost and Arnoux at Renault in the early 80s or Senna and Berger at McLaren in the 90s. Two great drivers with different styles. Fisico has not followed Alonso home much this year, but he has scored points nearly everywhere. That ain't bad!!

Sorry about the last post with nuttin in it![/quote]

[Amjad]

Everybody talk about F1 Driver and F1 team, who is best who not, and many assume that if x driver drive x car he will win or dominate, but as we see good driver can deliver even with medium car (Webber, button, Fiso, Rubino, ....) but when they go to top team they can't, why? because you need driver that take the car to the limit and such driver can't be any driver, there are a legend ( because the are superior ) the are can deliver the result with handicap car and always push the team to do best, they can adjust driving style quickly with car behavior, so they have ability to get the maximum of the package and so gain at least 0.3 sec. per lap and after 60 lap they get 18 sec. over their teammate only 0.3 sec per lap can do that huge difference in the race and 0.3 sec can mean 3 place in grid. So this driver not bad because they are in F1, but legends not born everyday. You can't say that MS is not great, he is great not because of who much race he win or who much championship, but because he build a team that can give him a car to do that.
If you look to Toyota and Honda that both have giant budget but no result, they need a driver to tell them where the problem is, then push the team to solve problem, but if you don't have driver that can make diagnosis then you can't deliver.

[sgd]

No one hates the Scuderia, we hate Michael Schumacher!!

In fact what i hate is the unsporting way ferrari has been acting (and had been winning) since MShumierda drives for them, but it's not only him... what do you say about Todt and Ross??
those 3... just so ugly, unsporting they are just so cheap.

i look to Alonso and (even though I'm a McLaren (Montoya) fan) i see a real champ a man (team) who wins because is the best in the moment, no because he crashes into the competitors or has no teammante to compete while having by far the best car of the grid...
I repect Alonso and do not and never will respect MShumierda & co. (The ONLY current (ever?) diver officially declared as cheater)

you know? a cheater will never be a real champion even if he wins.

[RE30B#16]

No one hates the Scuderia, we hate Michael Schumacher!!

In fact what i hate is the unsporting way ferrari has been acting (and had been winning) since MShumierda drives for them, but it's not only him... what do you say about Todt and Ross??
those 3... just so ugly, unsporting they are just so cheap.

i look to Alonso and (even though I'm a McLaren (Montoya) fan) i see a real champ a man (team) who wins because is the best in the moment, no because he crashes into the competitors or has no teammante to compete while having by far the best car of the grid...
I repect Alonso and do not and never will respect MShumierda & co. (The ONLY current (ever?) diver officially declared as cheater)

you know? a cheater will never be a real champion even if he wins.

What is interesting is that, after leaving Jordan and joining Benetton, Michael Schumacher teamed up with Ross Brawn and Rory Byrne. He has essentially been with this team his entire career. When he went to Ferrari, he took Brawn and Byrne with him, and, after one season, they recreated the Benetton in red! Also, they fired the team manager and brought in Jean Todt. As I remember reading comments from racing journalists in the early 80s about Nelson Piquet or Gilles Villeneuve when they would say they would like to see them work in a new team environment just to see how successful they would be. It would be interesting to see how MS would handle let's say David Coulthard's position at Red Bull.

I don't know if you can say Ferrari cheats plain and simple. All look for advantages. Some said Lauda and Brabham were cheating when they produced the "fan car." I disagree. They had to know that they were giving themselves an unfair advantage, but it took lawyers and courtrooms to determine that the car was ultimately illegal.

I'm focused on Schumacher himself. If a team does something unfair, it is a reflection of the driver more than anything else. Michael himself has been very unsporting with a lot of his on track behavior which is what is most unfortunate. His own arrogance seals the point.

Ayrton Senna takes a lot of flak for punting Alain Prost off the track to win a championship he pretty much had in the bag anyway. It had to do with animosity between the two men, not an attempt to win at all costs as many have spun it. Prost got a lot of mileage in the press over it, but when you look into his history with teammates and teams, he was usually the agent provocateur. Most of his teammates with the exception of Keke Rosberg and Damon Hill found his interteam politics to be very distasteful.

Michael Schumacher is very media savvy, ultra-professional, and super talented, but the man is very small. I consider him one of the two best drivers on planet Earth, but his greatness IMHO has been tarnished.

[Julian Mayo]

except for the first half of the last sentence.

[Jim Watt]

Julien: I watched the slo-mo several times. And I agree with you that it Michael, to quote Flavio, "parked" on the corner. The only reason he could have for this would be to prevent Fernando from beating his pole time.

Why he imagined he could get away with it boggles the mind. It's not as though every camera in the place isn't on him all the time!

In his defense, he said people would think what they were ready to think no matter what. Which is, I have to say, pretty lame.

On the other hand, even Ayrton wasn't beyond spearing contender's cars, you know.

Still, Michael's drive was classic Michael. And when he goes, who will there be to hate so good?

I know you keep tabs on the stats. Did Eddie Irvine ever win a GP? And did he take even longer than Jenson has (so far)? I sure hope that Mark Webber doesn't end up in the same cluster as those two!!

But, given the way F1 is going these days, Webber could certainly retire without a win. Unless Frank Williams can find someone to make a difference, even the Lexus/Toyota engines won't help much. And in spite of some positive spurts, it looks like Ron Dennis should retire, too.

With Honda in a nose dive, there doesn't look like anyone can stop the Blue cars OR the red ones.

So why, then, do I keep hoping against hope? Because it's racing and with racing you can never tell.

Jim Watt

[Julian Mayo]

Precisely, Jim. I don't actually hate anyone, it's just that Scummaker leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I am sure there will be others who will replace him in my disaffection,....little brother is not far behind !
Webbo could certainly retire without a win, as you say. There have been many talented drivers over the years who have not been smiled upon by the Racing Gods. Chris Amon immedately springs to mind

[jacfan]

Precisely, Jim. I don't actually hate anyone, it's just that Scummaker leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

The solution is simple Just keep him out of your mouth

[Julian Mayo]

Precisely, Jim. I don't actually hate anyone, it's just that Scummaker leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

The solution is simple Just keep him out of your mouth

I am just a country boy

Please explain yourself

[RE30B#16]

On the other hand, even Ayrton wasn't beyond spearing contender's cars, you know.

Only if your name was Alain Prost. Get the facts straight.

[RE30B#16]

Precisely, Jim. I don't actually hate anyone, it's just that Scummaker leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

The solution is simple Just keep him out of your mouth