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Snowy wrote:

Ed wrote:
However, as we all know, engines alone don't win races. Cosworth had arguably the most powerful engine in 2006. Williams finished 9th!

It wasn't the most powerful at the end or even the middle of the season surely?

Isn't there some way of telling by the sound they make or am I thinking of sommit else?

Cosworth had one of the highest revving engines on the grid up to and including the last race. In fact Cosworth were planning to run the engines at 20,000 rpm for the entire race. They actually did but both Williams' lasted 1 lap!

No manufacturer published the power of their engine but yes the rpms can be approximately measured via sound.
One thing to keep in mind though is that while peak power is important, engine driveability and power delivery at lower revs is equally important.

Ed wrote:

Snowy wrote:

Ed wrote:
However, as we all know, engines alone don't win races. Cosworth had arguably the most powerful engine in 2006. Williams finished 9th!

It wasn't the most powerful at the end or even the middle of the season surely?

Isn't there some way of telling by the sound they make or am I thinking of sommit else?

Cosworth had one of the highest revving engines on the grid up to and including the last race. In fact Cosworth were planning to run the engines at 20,000 rpm for the entire race. They actually did but both Williams' lasted 1 lap!

No manufacturer published the power of their engine but yes the rpms can be approximately measured via sound.
One thing to keep in mind though is that while peak power is important, engine driveability and power delivery at lower revs is equally important.

So Williams is really doing a bad job in the chassis and aero department!

So why no Cosworth on the grid next season? Or perhaps I shouldn't ask that question.

Snowy wrote: So Williams is really doing a bad job in the chassis and aero department!

So why no Cosworth on the grid next season? Or perhaps I shouldn't ask that question.

Performance wise the Williams certainly wasn't the 8th ranked car out there.
The Williams was unreliable car and their drivers got involved in a bit too many accidents and hence their poor overall result.

As for Cosworth, I don't know for sure but Williams already had Toyota in mind and Toro Rosso only used the Cosworth V10 because they got away with it. When Red Bull wanted the Renault engine, Toro Rosso had to take the Ferrari engine.
Who knows, they may return in 2008 with Prodrive!

Ed wrote:

Snowy wrote: So Williams is really doing a bad job in the chassis and aero department!

So why no Cosworth on the grid next season? Or perhaps I shouldn't ask that question.

Performance wise the Williams certainly wasn't the 8th ranked car out there.
The Williams was unreliable car and their drivers got involved in a bit too many accidents and hence their poor overall result.

As for Cosworth, I don't know for sure but Williams already had Toyota in mind and Toro Rosso only used the Cosworth V10 because they got away with it. When Red Bull wanted the Renault engine, Toro Rosso had to take the Ferrari engine.
Who knows, they may return in 2008 with Prodrive!

Prodrive will surely be using Subaru engines
Oh no they can't they haven't been homiginized!!!!

What if Hyundia or Nissan want to join what happens to them do they have to use Cosworth engines aswell?

Snowy wrote:

Ed wrote:

Snowy wrote: So Williams is really doing a bad job in the chassis and aero department!

So why no Cosworth on the grid next season? Or perhaps I shouldn't ask that question.

Performance wise the Williams certainly wasn't the 8th ranked car out there.
The Williams was unreliable car and their drivers got involved in a bit too many accidents and hence their poor overall result.

As for Cosworth, I don't know for sure but Williams already had Toyota in mind and Toro Rosso only used the Cosworth V10 because they got away with it. When Red Bull wanted the Renault engine, Toro Rosso had to take the Ferrari engine.
Who knows, they may return in 2008 with Prodrive!

Prodrive will surely be using Subaru engines
Oh no they can't they haven't been homiginized!!!!

What if Hyundia or Nissan want to join what happens to them do they have to use Cosworth engines aswell?

Prodrive will enter as Aston Martin using Cosworth Engines.

Snowy wrote: What if Hyundia or Nissan want to join what happens to them do they have to use Cosworth engines aswell?

That is a good question. If Nissan want in, what engine will they use? If they are allowed to use their own what specs will they have to stick to?

I don't think there is a provision for a new entrant during this freeze. Any manufacturer coming in fresh would need a few years to produce a competitive F1 engine so they would be planning for 2012.

Nissan is an easy one, they would go for a rebadged Renault given their alliance. Subaru, Hyundai, Kia, etc ... I guess if they really want to they can rebadge from an existing supplier.

Keep in mind that for the last 4 years no manufacturer has entered or re-entered the sport. Toyota was the last to enter in 2002.

Ed wrote:
Keep in mind that for the last 4 years no manufacturer has entered or re-entered the sport. Toyota was the last to enter in 2002.

Is that healthy?

Ed wrote:I don't think there is a provision for a new entrant during this freeze. Any manufacturer coming in fresh would need a few years to produce a competitive F1 engine so they would be planning for 2012.

Nissan is an easy one, they would go for a rebadged Renault given their alliance. Subaru, Hyundai, Kia, etc ... I guess if they really want to they can rebadge from an existing supplier.

Keep in mind that for the last 4 years no manufacturer has entered or re-entered the sport. Toyota was the last to enter in 2002.

No one listens to me! Prodrive will enter as Aston Martin in 2008 using the current Cosworth mill

Julian Mayo wrote:
No one listens to me! Prodrive will enter as Aston Martin in 2008 using the current Cosworth mill

Doesn't that kind of unsubstantiated rumour belong on your thread?

Julian Mayo wrote:

Ed wrote:I don't think there is a provision for a new entrant during this freeze. Any manufacturer coming in fresh would need a few years to produce a competitive F1 engine so they would be planning for 2012.

Nissan is an easy one, they would go for a rebadged Renault given their alliance. Subaru, Hyundai, Kia, etc ... I guess if they really want to they can rebadge from an existing supplier.

Keep in mind that for the last 4 years no manufacturer has entered or re-entered the sport. Toyota was the last to enter in 2002.

No one listens to me! Prodrive will enter as Aston Martin in 2008 using the current Cosworth mill

Did the FIA homologate the Cosworth

Prodrive are involved with Aston Martin and Subaru but Cosworth is no longer a Ford brand! So why Aston Martin and not Subaru ?

What about a rebadged Honda ?

Ed wrote:

Julian Mayo wrote:Aston Martin in 2008 using the current Cosworth mill

Did the FIA homologate the Cosworth

Prodrive are involved with Aston Martin and Subaru but Cosworth is no longer a Ford brand! So why Aston Martin and not Subaru ?

What about a rebadged Honda ?

Honda would actually go for that they love pitting their teams against each other. It's been their undoing in MotoGP though

Ed wrote:

Julian Mayo wrote:

Ed wrote:I don't think there is a provision for a new entrant during this freeze. Any manufacturer coming in fresh would need a few years to produce a competitive F1 engine so they would be planning for 2012.

Nissan is an easy one, they would go for a rebadged Renault given their alliance. Subaru, Hyundai, Kia, etc ... I guess if they really want to they can rebadge from an existing supplier.

Keep in mind that for the last 4 years no manufacturer has entered or re-entered the sport. Toyota was the last to enter in 2002.

No one listens to me! Prodrive will enter as Aston Martin in 2008 using the current Cosworth mill

Did the FIA homologate the Cosworth

If they didn't they , cosworth would be entitled to enter the spec engine.
In a complicated deal sigh as usual in the Motor/racing industry, Ford, cash straped will sell AM to a couple of European gentleman, one of whom seriously wet his toes in motor racing a couple of years ago

Prodrive are involved with Aston Martin and Subaru but Cosworth is no longer a Ford brand! So why Aston Martin and not Subaru ?

What about a rebadged Honda ?

It seems there is a certaind determination to keep both F1 trophies in Europe for many a long year. At least til we are all driving Hyundais

Julian Mayo wrote: It seems there is a certaind determination to keep both F1 trophies in Europe for many a long year. At least til we are all driving Hyundais

Honda as an engine supplier won the title 9 times. As a team they have struggled but they started to look much improved later this season. In 2007 we'll see if their drivers can actually make the next step.

Toyota have struggled with poor management as well as poor driver selection. Ralf and Jarno may be good drivers but they aren't the drivers you need to win titles.

Those two have to be more determined otherwise we will have to wait for Hyundai

Ed wrote:

Julian Mayo wrote: It seems there is a certaind determination to keep both F1 trophies in Europe for many a long year. At least til we are all driving Hyundais

Honda as an engine supplier won the title 9 times. As a team they have struggled but they started to look much improved later this season. In 2007 we'll see if their drivers can actually make the next step.

Toyota have struggled with poor management as well as poor driver selection. Ralf and Jarno may be good drivers but they aren't the drivers you need to win titles.

Those two have to be more determined otherwise we will have to wait for Hyundai

Besides there will be 4 teams running Japanese engines: Honda, Aguri, Toyota and Williams... Judging from the car+driver performance I'd have to agree with Ed that the title will remain in Europe for a few more years. If (and a BIG if at that) a Japanese powered team wins the title that would most possibly be Honda.