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Webber blames himself as much as anyone else for the Williams fiasco. His words were something like "there are 560 people at Williams, we failed to perform as a team. I was part of that team". He would have liked to stay, and tend to unfinished business, but was not hopefull of much success, then when RedBull headhunted him Briatore advised him in robust terms to accept
He then went on to say that it is up to the drivers & Newey primarily, Newey has the people he wanted,the chassis he wanted, the engines he wanted, and the drivers he wanted ( I assume he would have liked to have Kimi and Alonso, but they are a tad busy& expensive) He does not expect to seriously challenge for the Title this year but he let it be known that he will not be a happy little skippy if he does not stand on the podium a few times this year.

Julian Mayo wrote:Webber blames himself as much as anyone else for the Williams fiasco. His words were something like "there are 560 people at Williams, we failed to perform as a team. I was part of that team". He would have liked to stay, and tend to unfinished business, but was not hopefull of much success, then when RedBull headhunted him Briatore advised him in robust terms to accept
He then went on to say that it is up to the drivers & Newey primarily, Newey has the people he wanted,the chassis he wanted, the engines he wanted, and the drivers he wanted ( I assume he would have liked to have Kimi and Alonso, but they are a tad busy& expensive) He does not expect to seriously challenge for the Title this year but he let it be known that he will not be a happy little skippy if he does not stand on the podium a few times this year.

The way things stand I don't think Red Bull will be able to compete with the likes of Ferrari and Renault. Not only those but McLaren and Honda are two other key players not to be overlooked. Even Toyota, if they somehow get Trulli and Ralf to be more ambitious, will score some points. Amongst this fray Webber and DC will manage to get Red Bull some points but podiums... Doubtful.

Hopefully I will be wrong about this and we'll have another team up there fighting. Can't wait for March

Oops Got a timeout and double-posted as a result. Looks like I managed to fix the situation though. If you all see a deleted post, it is the duplicate.

gkaytaz wrote:Oops Got a timeout and double-posted as a result. Looks like I managed to fix the situation though. If you all see a deleted post, it is the duplicate.

If I see a deleted post I am going to start charging for miracles, as I stroll upon the lake

Julian Mayo wrote:

gkaytaz wrote:Oops Got a timeout and double-posted as a result. Looks like I managed to fix the situation though. If you all see a deleted post, it is the duplicate.

If I see a deleted post I am going to start charging for miracles, as I stroll upon the lake

No need to get your feet wet

What I meant was, in some forums when you delete a post a message appears saying that the post has been deleted by the poster. Does that work the same way here?

gee, I thought GK would reply to that

JayVee wrote:

Amjad wrote:Let's take a look to what situation will be in early 2007 (first 3-5 races)
Renault:
+ve: stable technical department +management
-ve :Have New tire supplier + proven inconstancies driver(Fiso) + rookie

Ferrari:
+ve: have massa + Fia + Bridgestone
-ve :broken of dream team technical staff+ No MS+ new face (kimi)

McLaren:
+ve: have number one in the nose of the car
-ve: will have two new driver + new tire supplier+ struggling technical department

Honda:
+ve: have stable driver lineup + stable technical department + zonta
-ve: new tire supplier

BMW:
+ve: have proven driver (Nick) + stable technical department
-ve: new tire supplier + semi rookie (kubica)

Toyota:
+ve: have stable driver lineup + stable technical department + Bridgestone
-ve: Reliability (become too aggressive)

Redbull
+ve: have proven driver (DC) + Boosted technical department
-ve: new tire supplier + new driver (Webber)

Williams:
+ve: management
-ve: new engine + rusty racer (wurz)+ no leader driver

So it will be a mess start for 2007 until the 4th or 5th round and everything settle down

I think if 2006 Bridgestone shoed car have advantage in early 2007 it will be down to Ferrari (massa) and Toyota to dominate, if not it will be really mess and no one can predict any thing until actual race start in 2007

Good post Amjad but I have a few observations

Renault have proven inconsistencies with Fisichella (and I fully agree) but isn't that the same with Toyota and both their drivers ?

McLaren have struggling technical department ?? Why ? Adrian Newey left a long time ago. At least before last season started.
Toyota have a stable technical departement Didn't Gascoyne leave during the season ?

You have Williams management as + You aren't serious!

BMW have proven driver in Heidfeld. You think he is very good!

I think it is highly unlikely for Toyota to dominate. Perhaps 5th and 6th (if their drivers become consistent )

It looks like Honda have a lot of + and very few - so they should dominate

I think Alonso and Kimi will fight it out but both will have their share of problems as the McLaren is no Renault and the Ferrari team isn't the same.

Thanks JayVee, but please note that it just for the first 3-5 races only not for the season
For Toyota (as Toyota -Ralf- Fan), naturally I give them a bigger size than they deserve, but I still believe in them.
I saw Toyota drivers in 2005 very constant as we can't judge their performance in 2006 due to many tire and Reliability issues but when both car finished their are only one or two place separate them not as Alonso win and Fiso finish 5th many times

for McLaren: how much engineer they lost in 2006 : 2 for Redbull and 2 for Honda and that what I know may be there are more and the team not improved that much to overcome Adrian Newey departure even he left the time before the season start so they are struggling.
For Toyota: I think it very big mistake to fire Gascoyne, but it done early in the season and the team struggled all the season to overcome that. And the team show sign of improvement at the end of season in term of speed (Use Q2 as indicator(

Every body will have problems in 2007 because they all have new parameter have to deal with (new tire, new driver, new technical, new engine) the least team have such problems is Toyota but they are not good enough to fight for win so they will take advantage in early season to take 2-3 podium and may be a lucky win, and take this advantage to make them self regular point scorer (3-6 place) to may finish the season 3rd or 4th.

For Honda they show speed and constant but with new tire supplier I see them struggling again early in the season.

JayVee wrote:

Amjad wrote:

Julian Mayo wrote:I heard Webber interviewed on Sunday.For 2007 Bridgestone are using a tried and tested tyre which he has driven on. I dont know if any other drivers have.

It will be full advantage for 2006 Bridgestone teams at least in the early stages of the season where the winter test carried in cold temperature so the teams will have a shock in the wormer condition as performance of the tire changed dramatically. so they will work mainly in tires to make them work properly, in same time, their development program will come to halt as their comparing data need to adjusted according to tire performance, so when they add new part, they don't know if performance due to tire improvement or due to that part. (That what happened with Toyota in 2006, they kept them self away by data conflect until 7th or 8th round, then they start to face reliability problem because the are rushing R&D department to make the lost time in the beginning of the season )
waitting 2007...

There will be an advantage for Ferrari, Toyota and Williams, how much no one knows but I very much doubt it will be huge.

Toyota can't be used as a yardstick. They had major problems with their tyres early in the season but that doesn't mean Renault or McLaren will. There is a huge difference between those two teams and Toyota!

you are very right, but they will strugle for sure and i will bet on that,
when i said Ferrari and Toyota will dominant that do not mean that other teams will not perform well, they have to perform well but they can't show their full strengh and it will take time to show it, at that time other team will take advantage.

gkaytaz wrote:

Julian Mayo wrote:Webber blames himself as much as anyone else for the Williams fiasco. His words were something like "there are 560 people at Williams, we failed to perform as a team. I was part of that team". He would have liked to stay, and tend to unfinished business, but was not hopefull of much success, then when RedBull headhunted him Briatore advised him in robust terms to accept
He then went on to say that it is up to the drivers & Newey primarily, Newey has the people he wanted,the chassis he wanted, the engines he wanted, and the drivers he wanted ( I assume he would have liked to have Kimi and Alonso, but they are a tad busy& expensive) He does not expect to seriously challenge for the Title this year but he let it be known that he will not be a happy little skippy if he does not stand on the podium a few times this year.

The way things stand I don't think Red Bull will be able to compete with the likes of Ferrari and Renault. Not only those but McLaren and Honda are two other key players not to be overlooked. Even Toyota, if they somehow get Trulli and Ralf to be more ambitious, will score some points. Amongst this fray Webber and DC will manage to get Red Bull some points but podiums... Doubtful.

Hopefully I will be wrong about this and we'll have another team up there fighting. Can't wait for March

I can remember the years when Ferrari couldn't even buy a win. There is no guarentee that Ferrari will be the major force next year. I don't think Red Bull will be either but I would hope to see some closer racing next year.

Amjad wrote:

JayVee wrote:

Amjad wrote:Let's take a look to what situation will be in early 2007 (first 3-5 races)
Renault:
+ve: stable technical department +management
-ve :Have New tire supplier + proven inconstancies driver(Fiso) + rookie

Ferrari:
+ve: have massa + Fia + Bridgestone
-ve :broken of dream team technical staff+ No MS+ new face (kimi)

McLaren:
+ve: have number one in the nose of the car
-ve: will have two new driver + new tire supplier+ struggling technical department

Honda:
+ve: have stable driver lineup + stable technical department + zonta
-ve: new tire supplier

BMW:
+ve: have proven driver (Nick) + stable technical department
-ve: new tire supplier + semi rookie (kubica)

Toyota:
+ve: have stable driver lineup + stable technical department + Bridgestone
-ve: Reliability (become too aggressive)

Redbull
+ve: have proven driver (DC) + Boosted technical department
-ve: new tire supplier + new driver (Webber)

Williams:
+ve: management
-ve: new engine + rusty racer (wurz)+ no leader driver

So it will be a mess start for 2007 until the 4th or 5th round and everything settle down

I think if 2006 Bridgestone shoed car have advantage in early 2007 it will be down to Ferrari (massa) and Toyota to dominate, if not it will be really mess and no one can predict any thing until actual race start in 2007

Good post Amjad but I have a few observations

Renault have proven inconsistencies with Fisichella (and I fully agree) but isn't that the same with Toyota and both their drivers ?

McLaren have struggling technical department ?? Why ? Adrian Newey left a long time ago. At least before last season started.
Toyota have a stable technical departement Didn't Gascoyne leave during the season ?

You have Williams management as + You aren't serious!

BMW have proven driver in Heidfeld. You think he is very good!

I think it is highly unlikely for Toyota to dominate. Perhaps 5th and 6th (if their drivers become consistent )

It looks like Honda have a lot of + and very few - so they should dominate

I think Alonso and Kimi will fight it out but both will have their share of problems as the McLaren is no Renault and the Ferrari team isn't the same.

Thanks JayVee, but please note that it just for the first 3-5 races only not for the season
For Toyota (as Toyota -Ralf- Fan), naturally I give them a bigger size than they deserve, but I still believe in them.
I saw Toyota drivers in 2005 very constant as we can't judge their performance in 2006 due to many tire and Reliability issues but when both car finished their are only one or two place separate them not as Alonso win and Fiso finish 5th many times

for McLaren: how much engineer they lost in 2006 : 2 for Redbull and 2 for Honda and that what I know may be there are more and the team not improved that much to overcome Adrian Newey departure even he left the time before the season start so they are struggling.
For Toyota: I think it very big mistake to fire Gascoyne, but it done early in the season and the team struggled all the season to overcome that. And the team show sign of improvement at the end of season in term of speed (Use Q2 as indicator(

Every body will have problems in 2007 because they all have new parameter have to deal with (new tire, new driver, new technical, new engine) the least team have such problems is Toyota but they are not good enough to fight for win so they will take advantage in early season to take 2-3 podium and may be a lucky win, and take this advantage to make them self regular point scorer (3-6 place) to may finish the season 3rd or 4th.

For Honda they show speed and constant but with new tire supplier I see them struggling again early in the season.

Unfortunately for me and for Honda you have both missed the upheavals in the Honda Technical dept. They have lost Tchnical Director Geoff Willis, Senior Aerodynamicists Willem Toet and Simon Lacey. All these changes are Surmountable for a team with a strong leader and track record of good decision making, however Honda is not that bright and BAR weren't that bright either strategy wise. Much as I would like to see them triumph the only plus's they have is driver line up, experience on Bridgestone in 2003/4 and that isn't going to make that much difference, when you consider that if the car is a pig not even a Schuey can make it a winner.

jacfan wrote:

gkaytaz wrote:

Julian Mayo wrote:Webber blames himself as much as anyone else for the Williams fiasco. His words were something like "there are 560 people at Williams, we failed to perform as a team. I was part of that team". He would have liked to stay, and tend to unfinished business, but was not hopefull of much success, then when RedBull headhunted him Briatore advised him in robust terms to accept
He then went on to say that it is up to the drivers & Newey primarily, Newey has the people he wanted,the chassis he wanted, the engines he wanted, and the drivers he wanted ( I assume he would have liked to have Kimi and Alonso, but they are a tad busy& expensive) He does not expect to seriously challenge for the Title this year but he let it be known that he will not be a happy little skippy if he does not stand on the podium a few times this year.

The way things stand I don't think Red Bull will be able to compete with the likes of Ferrari and Renault. Not only those but McLaren and Honda are two other key players not to be overlooked. Even Toyota, if they somehow get Trulli and Ralf to be more ambitious, will score some points. Amongst this fray Webber and DC will manage to get Red Bull some points but podiums... Doubtful.

Hopefully I will be wrong about this and we'll have another team up there fighting. Can't wait for March

I can remember the years when Ferrari couldn't even buy a win. There is no guarentee that Ferrari will be the major force next year. I don't think Red Bull will be either but I would hope to see some closer racing next year.

We shall certainly see less of those ridiculous races where one tyre is so superior that only two drivers have any chance of winning a race like we saw in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 and the end of 2006!

Snowy wrote: We shall certainly see less of those ridiculous races where one tyre is so superior that only two drivers have any chance of winning a race like we saw in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 and the end of 2006!

I hope so too. The engine freeze plus a single tyre supplier should translate to a closer competition where the driver skill shines. As I stated before I would really love to see each race won by a different driver

gkaytaz wrote:

Snowy wrote: We shall certainly see less of those ridiculous races where one tyre is so superior that only two drivers have any chance of winning a race like we saw in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 and the end of 2006!

I hope so too. The engine freeze plus a single tyre supplier should translate to a closer competition where the driver skill shines. As I stated before I would really love to see each race won by a different driver

Alternate races won by Jenson and Lewis

Snowy wrote:

gkaytaz wrote:

Snowy wrote: We shall certainly see less of those ridiculous races where one tyre is so superior that only two drivers have any chance of winning a race like we saw in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 and the end of 2006!

I hope so too. The engine freeze plus a single tyre supplier should translate to a closer competition where the driver skill shines. As I stated before I would really love to see each race won by a different driver

Alternate races won by Jenson and Lewis

You're drifting off again snowy.....

<T-K> wrote:

Snowy wrote:

gkaytaz wrote:
I hope so too. The engine freeze plus a single tyre supplier should translate to a closer competition where the driver skill shines. As I stated before I would really love to see each race won by a different driver

Alternate races won by Jenson and Lewis

You're drifting off again snowy.....

Reality check Hakinnen in frame for Mclaren seat