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F1greyhound wrote:Based on efficiency JPM should be rated higher but the question was who are currently the fastest drivers in F1....

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Im not a "MS fan" but a dedicated follower of F1, I like to give credit where its due and who is the best driver is very far out of question. In any driver survey, and you can find statements of most drivers from the last years somewhere, you will find one name as the best driver since Ayrton Senna.
Rubens was many times extremely close to that man and you can hardly expect that he is less than a top driver based on that.


Eventually we are getting closer to the time where someone else than Michael takes over as the best, and Kimi/Fernando are the most serious candidates for that.

As you say, the question is about 2005, not 2004 or 2003 or 2002

Yes Michael did show some speed in Imola and Monaco but that doesn't make him the best this year!!

My top four would be:

Kimi
Alonso
Trulli
Heidfeld

fastest 4 : This season:
in no particular order:
Kimi
Webber
Alonso
Trulli
Webber and Trulli are the only 2 drivers to Q in the top 5 at every race.
This is my opinion.

julian mayo wrote:fastest 4 : This season:
in no particular order:
Kimi
Webber
Alonso
Trulli
Webber and Trulli are the only 2 drivers to Q in the top 5 at every race.
This is my opinion.

Just Heidfeld has been faster then MW in race conditions...

in fact Trulli and Webber are quite similar drivers, good Q bad races. (although Trulli this year has improved a lot his race pace is still a lot worse then his Q pace)
maybe NH and RS are a bit the opposite.

JayVee wrote:

F1greyhound wrote:Based on efficiency JPM should be rated higher but the question was who are currently the fastest drivers in F1....

.....


Im not a "MS fan" but a dedicated follower of F1, I like to give credit where its due and who is the best driver is very far out of question. In any driver survey, and you can find statements of most drivers from the last years somewhere, you will find one name as the best driver since Ayrton Senna.
Rubens was many times extremely close to that man and you can hardly expect that he is less than a top driver based on that.


Eventually we are getting closer to the time where someone else than Michael takes over as the best, and Kimi/Fernando are the most serious candidates for that.

As you say, the question is about 2005, not 2004 or 2003 or 2002

Yes Michael did show some speed in Imola and Monaco but that doesn't make him the best this year!!

JV, didn't you put JV in your top driver? How does this effect your argument?

sgd wrote:

bundy wrote:i will put mine in order. feel free to criticise;

1. Alonso - Leads the championship. Showed a lot of talent in Monaco drive
2. Kimi - Will win the WDC this year I believe
3. Schumacher - How do you leave a 7 time WDC out. Love him or hate him you MUST respect his ability.
4. Button - Has had a tough start but once BAR got their s**t together he finished 3rd. (Even though then got DQ'd)
5. Webber - Is consistently quick in Qual. Let down by Williams poor starts. Been beaten twice by team-mate. 1st time poor strategy cost him, 2nd time poor start & team cost him. Otherwise NH doesn't look like finishing anywhere near him.

bundy wrote: The reason I have left out JPM is because he has done VERY little if anything at all this season. While MS has struggled so too has the Ferrari but he has still had 1 VERY VERY strong performance. JPM has no excuse as Kimi has now won 2 races and McLaren look very strong (yes i know he was injured & missed a few races) and he has put in 2 poor performances since he has been back (While his race drive in Monaco was OK, his ego & stupidity cost him a strong qualifying place).

You are in problems... if those are your arguments to let Montoya out, please explain me why is Button in??? And remember him being overtaken at IMOLA!
be sincere and gives us your real top5!

Mate, why would you ask peoples opinion on the top drivers, and then not take them seriously? Did you create this post just to get a pointless arguement going?

sgd wrote:

julian mayo wrote:fastest 4 : This season:
in no particular order:
Kimi
Webber
Alonso
Trulli
Webber and Trulli are the only 2 drivers to Q in the top 5 at every race.
This is my opinion.

Just Heidfeld has been faster then MW in race conditions...

in fact Trulli and Webber are quite similar drivers, good Q bad races. (although Trulli this year has improved a lot his race pace is still a lot worse then his Q pace)
maybe NH and RS are a bit the opposite.

You asked for my opinion. You got my opinion.

rah wrote:[JV, didn't you put JV in your top driver? How does this effect your argument?

JV in 5th was just for fun

But people (not you rah ) putting Michael in first for this year and being serious about it, why ? what has he done to deserve that

julian mayo wrote:You asked for my opinion. You got my opinion.

Looks like julian wasn't having a good weekend

Perhaps he hasn't use the AXE for a while

sgd wrote:

bundy wrote:i will put mine in order. feel free to criticise;

1. Alonso - Leads the championship. Showed a lot of talent in Monaco drive
2. Kimi - Will win the WDC this year I believe
3. Schumacher - How do you leave a 7 time WDC out. Love him or hate him you MUST respect his ability.
4. Button - Has had a tough start but once BAR got their s**t together he finished 3rd. (Even though then got DQ'd)
5. Webber - Is consistently quick in Qual. Let down by Williams poor starts. Been beaten twice by team-mate. 1st time poor strategy cost him, 2nd time poor start & team cost him. Otherwise NH doesn't look like finishing anywhere near him.

bundy wrote:
The reason I have left out JPM is because he has done VERY little if anything at all this season. While MS has struggled so too has the Ferrari but he has still had 1 VERY VERY strong performance. JPM has no excuse as Kimi has now won 2 races and McLaren look very strong (yes i know he was injured & missed a few races) and he has put in 2 poor performances since he has been back (While his race drive in Monaco was OK, his ego & stupidity cost him a strong qualifying place).

You are in problems... if those are your arguments to let Montoya out, please explain me why is Button in??? And remember him being overtaken at IMOLA!
be sincere and gives us your real top5!

If you are going to ask for my Top 5 and then have a go at me because its different to yours then you have a problem.

This is a very subjective topic. People have fvourite drivers who they will tend to rank above they don't like. That's the way it is.

You HATE Mark Webber, thats fine with me. I just happen to think the bloke has ability & the right attitude.

I don't like Montoya. He probably has more ability than Mark but to me has a very poor attitude & work ethic. I have no respect for that and hence have not included him.

That is just MY OPINION

JayVee wrote:

rah wrote:[JV, didn't you put JV in your top driver? How does this effect your argument?

JV in 5th was just for fun

But people (not you rah ) putting Michael in first for this year and being serious about it, why ? what has he done to deserve that

I have answered the question incorrectly. 2005 top 5 drivers sofar:

1) Fernando Alonso
2) Kimi Raikkonen
3) Jarno Trulli
4) David Coulthard
5) Nick Heidfeld

K-D wrote:I have answered the question incorrectly...

in fact the idea was as you understood in the begining... your Top4/5/6 of the drives racing in F1 in 2005...as you think it is in the moment.
but is ok if you want to post you Top 4/5/6 in terms of actual performance of the drivers in this 1/3 of season.

in my case Montoya and MShumierda would be in the first Top4, but not in the second case Top4...

My this season actual performance Top4:
1.Alonso
1.David Coulthard
2.Raikkonen
3. Jarno Trulli[/i]

K-D wrote: I have answered the question incorrectly. 2005 top 5 drivers sofar:

1) Fernando Alonso
2) Kimi Raikkonen
3) Jarno Trulli
4) David Coulthard
5) Nick Heidfeld

Now I can take JV from 5th

sgd wrote:in fact the idea was as you understood in the begining... your Top4/5/6 of the drives racing in F1 in 2005...as you think it is in the moment.

You've totally confused me

What is the difference between "Top4/5/6 of the drives racing in F1 in 2005" and "Top 4/5/6 in terms of actual performance of the drivers in this 1/3 of season."

I am not into statistical forecasting

But are you saying the first is emotional (heart) and the second is practical (mind)

sgd wrote: My this season actual performance Top4:
1.Alonso
1.David Coulthard
2.Raikkonen
3. Jarno Trulli[/i]

Alonso = Coulthard


Coulthard (even though he is cute too ) is very skillful in taking care of his car and avoiding trouble but I never felt he drove at 100%, always at 98% or 99%

His pit lane penalty was a rookie's mistake

And Klien the 'almost rookie' was very close to him in the first 3 races

I am lost as well.

I think that this thread is about which drivers we think to have perfomed the best in 2005.

My last reply is the fiver drivers whom I think have been the best this season in overcoming their car/engine/tire package and deliver at peak or better of what their particular car/engine/tire package is capable of.

The list is in order of how I feel they stack up.

My first incorrect reply was my personal estimate of "talent" of the current top 4 drivers in F1.

If it is any consolation to anyone, then I don't really care for Kimi, and I really do not like Trulli. Kimi is obviously together with Alonso they best drivers not named Michael Schumacher. Jarno Trulli is a faboulous qualifying driver, but to often perform at a lower level in the races, this season he has despite this been able to hold on to the very front of the grid in 7 races sofar, exceeding my expectations of him, and as much as it grates me I have to place him in the top 5 of drivers sofar.

It would be natural that the top 5 in anyones extimation, would be in the top 8 of point scoreers, unless someone could come up with a very good explantion for another driver to be included.

For example I have put a lot into an argument that David Coulthard have sofar this season exceeded his cars ability to an extent that despite "only" being in 10th place pointswise, he is clearly one of the top 5 drivers sofar.