The 2008 British Grand Prix Thread

[GhoGho]

It was, of course, Ross Braun's genius that put Rubens on the full wets. I have always thought that Ferrari lost more when they lost Ross than when Jean Todt retired and Silverstone supplies me with more reason to believe it.


Jim Watt

Jim,
As usual i enjoy your posts, thanks you!

The statement you made about Ross Braun sums it all up for me.
I believe he is part of the reason MS was so successful, and since his departure from Ferrari, they have become a team that is so involved in the technical, over analysed everything, that they have forgotten how to think!

Yes, Ferrari made a bad decision to leave both drivers on worn inters at the first pitstop.
You would think that they could see PM struggling on the tires he had so why not risk new tires for him? They must have had lap times from at least Fernando on worn tires!

After screwing that up, they pit early to get on new inters with a very long run till the end didnt seem to work either. When the track got wetter again no one reacted, except for Ross, who brillliantly put rubens on full wets!!
Rubens went at least ten laps where he was at least 10s faster than anyone else passing Kimi in the process! And that in a car that didn't make it out of Q1.
Now correct me if i am wrong, but 10x10 = 100 or 1 minute 40 seconds.
Stop for tires = 25s including in and out
100s gain minus 2 x 25s stops = 50s gain
QED - No technology required (just half a brain). Seems pretty logical to me that there was more to be gained than lost.

Even Williams got that one right with nakajima moving up from 14th to 6th, and losing 1 spot to trulli to finish seventh at the end. (and he finished on the full wets!)

If the gamble to do that for kimi seemed too great, why not at least try with Massa where there was nothing to lose anyway. He was already in last place and struggling to stay on the grey parts. Ferrari may even have saved themselves the embarrassment of going 2 laps down.

Sadly it seems the days of taking a risk or playing a gut feeling are gone and everyone relies on the number crunchers for their decisions.

[Jim Watt]

Thanks Gho Gho!

I enjoy your posts as well. Thanks, too, for the math; I haven't had time (for reasons of no interest to anyone) since the race to really go over the statistics on AutoSport, so what I was saying depended, entirely, on what I could see through the Fox Sports/Speed network feed.

You're entirely right on Ferrari's insane leaving Kimi out to embarrass himself and the team. Even assuming it was the car's balance (or lack of it) that was be-deviling him, it couldn't hurt to put him on wets when he was struggling to keep the car out of the sand traps!

on to Germany!

Jim Watt

[jacfan]

Dear Jac Fan:

In fact, Michael started with Jordan. That he moved rapidly to Benneton and on to Ferrari could be called lucky. Could be. But in F1, drivers either 'cash in' on their talent, or not. Whether that is a matter of luck or personality I couldn't say. But I'm serious about Ferrari offering Lewis a ride. If it hasn't happened yet, it will, you can bet on it. They are also interested in Kubica and watching Heikki. Why? Because they know how important it is, once you have made the best possible machine, to put the best possible driver in it.

As to comparisons of driver's records being rough and probably not very significant, I couldn't agree more. The only comparison that makes much sense --and even it is imperfect-- is a driver's record vis a vis his teammate.

People who saw Ayrton or Stirling or any of the 'greats' in action will never be convinced by another driver's statistics. And rightly so. I only got to really watch one driver through his racing career. Rick Mears. I saw all his Indianapolis 500's and can remember each of his four wins. My favorite was the last one. I still enjoy the race and love to watch the last 100 miles, but I won't change my mind no matter how many races some other guy wins. Should Helio, for instance, win three or four more times, I would never admit he was 'better' than Rick.

I suspect (from your handle) that you are the same in your loyalty to the fine Canadian (or Canadien) driver.

So here's to Jacques (and Gilles, his dad); long may they be honored!

Jim Watt

Yes I knew that Michael started out at Jordan. I remember watching Ayrton in his first race with Toleman and watching his rise to the top. My point was that neither Michael or Ayrton has the good fortune to be able to kick start their careers with a top team like LH has been fortunate enough to do. While you may say that Lewis has had a dream start to his career I also can remember Jacques starting his career with Williams and almost winning his first GP.
While I agree that Lewis is good and will ultimately become a WDC I can't compare him to either Michael or Ayrton. It is a pity you never got to see Aryton during his career.... he was the best!!!! I was an Ayrton fan well before I became a Jacfan.

[RE30B#16]

But I'm serious about Ferrari offering Lewis a ride. If it hasn't happened yet, it will, you can bet on it. They are also interested in Kubica and watching Heikki. Why? Because they know how important it is, once you have made the best possible machine, to put the best possible driver in it....
Jim Watt

Well, JW, I can agree with most of what you said except stating Lewis Hamilton is already as great as Senna or Schumacher. He is certainly on clip to put himself in that company eventually, however. His performance in the wet was very Senna-esque.

The other remark I can't agree with is the one about no one else keeping up with him. Certainly if Kimi had changed tires, the finish would have been more interesting. Had either Alonso or Raikonnen been in the second McLaren, it would have been a McLaren 1-2.

Robert Kubica is a star on the rise in Formula 1. Let me mention here that BMW-Sauber also changed tires on their first stops putting them in front of everyone else after other teams did not switch. His "off" was an unfortunate mistake perhaps unavoidable. BMW-Sauber is, as I said in another posting, the best 'team' out there right now.

All of these remarks notwithstanding, some drivers out there were plain pitiful. I was solidly unimpressed with Heikki Kovalainen whose seat is probably at jeopardy right now. He was smoked by Hamilton and made the McLaren look average. This, of course, is underscored by the cocky remark he made to Peter Windsor about rain not bothering him at all before the start.



Other drivers who stunk up the place were Massa, Piquet, Webber and Button. Did Jenson Button even take part in the British Grand Prix at all this year? I believe Mark Webber is much better than his result suggests. MW needs some better coaching and management. If I were him, I'd buddy up to David Coulthard and try to learn everything I could while he still has the chance.

If I ran Renault, McLaren or Honda, I could easily trade Webber for the lousy current number twos [eg: Piquet, Kovalainen, and Button]. Hell, all of those teams would be better off with Giancarlo Fisichella! Felipe Massa, on the other hand, needs to improve very quickly or he may find himself driving a Williams!!

[Julian Mayo]

But I'm serious about Ferrari offering Lewis a ride. If it hasn't happened yet, it will, you can bet on it. They are also interested in Kubica and watching Heikki. Why? Because they know how important it is, once you have made the best possible machine, to put the best possible driver in it....
Jim Watt

Well, JW, I can agree with most of what you said except stating Lewis Hamilton is already as great as Senna or Schumacher. He is certainly on clip to put himself in that company eventually, however. His performance in the wet was very Senna-esque.

The other remark I can't agree with is the one about no one else keeping up with him. Certainly if Kimi had changed tires, the finish would have been more interesting. Had either Alonso or Raikonnen been in the second McLaren, it would have been a McLaren 1-2.

Robert Kubica is a star on the rise in Formula 1. Let me mention here that BMW-Sauber also changed tires on their first stops putting them in front of everyone else after other teams did not switch. His "off" was an unfortunate mistake perhaps unavoidable. BMW-Sauber is, as I said in another posting, the best 'team' out there right now.

All of these remarks notwithstanding, some drivers out there were plain pitiful. I was solidly unimpressed with Heikki Kovalainen whose seat is probably at jeopardy right now. He was smoked by Hamilton and made the McLaren look average. This, of course, is underscored by the cocky remark he made to Peter Windsor about rain not bothering him at all before the start.



Other drivers who stunk up the place were Massa, Piquet, Webber and Button. Did Jenson Button even take part in the British Grand Prix at all this year? I believe Mark Webber is much better than his result suggests. MW needs some better coaching and management. If I were him, I'd buddy up to David Coulthard and try to learn everything I could while he still has the chance.

If I ran Renault, McLaren or Honda, I could easily trade Webber for the lousy current number twos [eg: Piquet, Kovalainen, and Button]. Hell, all of those teams would be better off with Giancarlo Fisichella! Felipe Massa, on the other hand, needs to improve very quickly or he may find himself driving a Williams!!

I concur