United States Grand Prix (Michael Schumacher wins!)

[Andre_Brasil]

Sorry, Rememberthis1 and Julian, but I insist in my point: If it were the Brigestones that were failing?

None of the proposals I've seen would compensate the Bridgestones teams. This is not how you should negotiate... if you are in a situation of disadvantage you should offer something to try to solve the problem.

What I've seen is Michelin blackmailing FIA using the emotions of the paying crowd.

If the chicane was created without any penalty for the Michelin teams, all Bridgestone teams would feel free to apply for a special qualifying session of 5 laps to be able to warm up the Bridgestones to the best performnce point.

[Julian Mayo]

totally correct julian, it might have been michelins mistake, but fia had the opportunity to fix it and they chose not too, i cant wait to see the next race and what goes on between rubens and schumey.. theres a lot of bitterness there now, schumey crossed the line with that move i think.
i think we can safely say that the GPWC will go ahead now, I just hope it suceeds

I think GPWC will succeed, because we have just seen what the opposition F1 series will look like.

The question is ... who will control GPWC? How can you have a series not controlled by team bosses with their own agenda's?

After todays efforts, The Teddy Bears on the way home from their picnic, would do a better job than the current mob.

[Julian Mayo]

Sounds like they are preparing for the writs!!

[Jim Watt]

I was one of 150,000 or so witnesses to this fiasco. I'm most sorry for my friends from Mexico whom I met yesterday during a practice break and before qualifications. They had made a big trip and were eager to settle the dispute between husband (Michael fan) and wife (Juan Pablo). I was only out the ticket money and about 3 hours of my time. But believe me, the fans know that they have been had and that it isn't Ferrari's fault or Michelin's fault or Tony George's (owner if IMS) fault. As my wife said while we were on the way to our car, "I can't wait to hear the pious spin coming out on all sides of this." Indeed, I almost expect to hear from the White House & Tony Blair before it's all over! But the clearest message, and one not wasted on me or any of the other fans present (I don't know about TV fans, because I don't know what spin they were being fed). The smell that filled the entire racetrack though should be entered into the Guinness book of world records and due recognition given of its origin. The source of the great emission was one B. Ecclestone (address withheld).

What it shows, of course, is that whenever Mr. E. says that he is looking ouf for the fans, there should be a collective, world-wide gag reaction. My local radio station said some fans were throwing things on the race course before the race was over. I am opposed to that as it might have harmed an innocent driver or safety person. What fans should have done is stormed the pagoda, found Mr. E. and strung him up by the heels.

That said, I have to wonder about some other spin quoted on this forum. Incredibly, some people see the whole thing as Ferrari's fault! I ask you now, when people are saying it was Michelin's fault, Bridgestone's fault, the Team Manager's fault, the drivers' fault, how is it that no one is saying it is Mr. E's fault?

I heard, again, on the radio that Michael was gracious (as, incredibly, always!) and thanked the fans for staying around for the finish, but when I logged on a few minutes ago, I could find no drivers' interview posted. Was that because they were embarrassed to even have one?

I have, by the way, two tickets to the U.S. Grand #@%&-up of 2005 which I would be happy to mail to the winners of the 8n'pole this week. Maybe they could get Ecclestone's and Mosely's autographs on them and exchange them one day for a autographed copy of Mein Kampf.

By the bye: Julian and Jay Vee. The race at Indianapolis was actually worse than the [sponsored] beer which you so kindly warned me about. Actually, yesterday, me and my mate (Simon from Dorset) both ended up tossing the rest in the trash: it was so hard to drink that the remains had actually gotten luke warm. Kind of like the aftertaste of the race today.

On to France where, I hope they won't have to rebuild the track for Michelin again.

Jim Watt

[Julian Mayo]

Jim, no one I have heard or read has attempted to put a spin on it. Amongst the commentators I have heard there is a general feeling of contempt for the utter lack of leadership required to resolve the issue and a great concern for the future of F1 in the USA

[emxgarcia]

The way I see it: F1 is dead in USA

[Jim Watt]

Julian:

Would you buy it if Ferrari insisted that their engines were unsafe above a certain rev and respectfully asked BMW and Renault to accept rev limiters in the interests of driver safety and fairness?

How can the problem be anyone other than Michelin's if six Bridgestone runners were able to run the entire race and not fail? If Michelin couldn't find enough tyres to race, I have to believe Bridgestone would have been happy to loan their teams decent ones.

No. Clearly what happened (and happened long before 6:30 AM this morning) was that the Michelin teams threatened to pull after the parade lap unless they got their way and, rather than publishing their outrageous and wholly ridiculous demand, Bernie decided to call their bluff without notifying the fans. I'd like to think Bernie was simply stupid and didn't realize that by not telling the fans he made it possible for Michelin and the team bosses to do exactly what they HAVE done: claim he (Bernie) is indifferent to driver safety. In fact, of course, Bernie cares no more for driver (or fan) safety than do the Team principals and manufacturers: all of them are indifferent to everything (including the fans) but their own bottom line! When I hear this kind of pious nonsense coming from companies and team principals who routinely risk test drivers' safety every week of the season, I have to gag mightily.

However you explain it, the principal observed by everyone in this massive snafu was: "DON'T LET THE FANS KNOW."

That said, I'd love to know why Jean Todt didn't blow the whistle this morning and save me a drive down to the speedway? Could it be he didn't know?! Not Bloody Likely, is it?

Remember the quaint days when all the fans had to be indignant about was whether or not Ferrari's team orders hurt motorsport?

Jim

[Julian Mayo]

Jim
my bone of contention is: Michelin stuffed up. The FIA and Bernie could have fixed it. They did not.

[Swanny]

Well I feel sorry for everyone involved that was just a embarrassment
Monteiro got a podium but it was a false one, so I feel for him.
I wanted MS not to get a win this season so I'm unhappy about that as I dont think he would have won.
Oh well thx FIA you made F1 a joke today


How can this ever be sorted out ??
What about the poor fans that traveled and spent a fortune to go see a race?

[Julian Mayo]

And a bloody sight more

[Graham Ross]

Julian:

Would you buy it if Ferrari insisted that their engines were unsafe above a certain rev and respectfully asked BMW and Renault to accept rev limiters in the interests of driver safety and fairness?

In 1994 after Senna died they put artificial chicanes on a race track so on safety grounds they could have done it. Also it seems the Michelin teams didn't mind losing points. I think just like the harsh penalty given to BAR, the FIA just want to stuff everyone involved with the GPWC.

Shame Jordan and Minardi raced. They should have pulled out and let the 2 Ferraris race alone and laugh!!

[Julian Mayo]

Julian:

Would you buy it if Ferrari insisted that their engines were unsafe above a certain rev and respectfully asked BMW and Renault to accept rev limiters in the interests of driver safety and fairness?

In 1994 after Senna died they put artificial chicanes on a race track so on safety grounds they could have done it. Also it seems the Michelin teams didn't mind losing points. I think just like the harsh penalty given to BAR, the FIA just want to stuff everyone involved with the GPWC.

Shame Jordan and Minardi raced. They should have pulled out and let the 2 Ferraris race alone and laugh!!

One or two sources said that Jordan & Minardi had agreed not to race, then Jordan reneged, so Minardi had to race them for points

[lemon_martini2]

Minardi and Jordan were not going to race.Then Jordan decided they could get some points out of this.So Minardi decided they could change their mind too,as they could not afford to give that many points away...

How we would have laughed if Ferrari were the only ones racing and they'd taken each other off...


Half the teams withdraw due to a protest,leaving Ferrari and the minor teams running.The minor teams pick up the last few places.Ferrari fight it out at the front with a controversial overtaking move.Sound familiar?
San Marino 82 anyone?

[jnc]

Sorry, Rememberthis1 and Julian, but I insist in my point: If it were the Brigestones that were failing?

None of the proposals I've seen would compensate the Bridgestones teams. This is not how you should negotiate... if you are in a situation of disadvantage you should offer something to try to solve the problem.

Err, the Michelin press release said: "The only practical solution was for a chicane to be installed prior to Turn 13 and nine of the teams were prepared to run under these conditions even forgoing championship points or by allowing non-Michelin teams to take top positions on the grid." Note the "even forgoing championship points or by allowing" etc.

So unless Michelin is flat-out lying here, they (well, their teams, actually - I doubt it was Michelin's call) were in amenable to doing something to recognize that Michelin had screwed up, and that would have some consequences.

[The Qualiflyer]

BE failed to exert influence in this. Michelin created the problem and MM applied the rules like the lawyer he is. The teams did what they felt they had to do. The more I think about this the less I see ANY compromise that could have worked.

As I see it the only team that can be faulted in this is Jordan. Paul Stoddard would have been in a very difficult position under the rules if he had been the only Bridgestone standout and I don't believe he did the wrong thing by reversing his decision when Jordan decided to collect points.

In the interest of the fans and credibility for the "sport" the teams should have run with 10 lap tyre changes (assuming Bibendum had enough donuts!). Any other response would have placed too much risk on all who attended or unreasonably disadvantaged the Bridgestone teams. The chicane was NOT an option that I see as being reasonable and regardless of whether the points were forfeited or not the rules would not have allowed any other response in a sanctioned event. It really was a no-win situation for the sport and the outcome has to be a drastic reapraisal of the rules to create an out-clause for unusual circumstances. Given the unlikely situation of any changes meeting the disparate interests of all the individual teams any out-clause would have to be an executive one by Charlie Whiting. Bernie legally can only address commercial issues - this fell way out of his bailiwick and firmly in the lap of the FIA.

All in all - a debacle the likes of which F1 has never seen before!