United States Grand Prix (Michael Schumacher wins!)

[Kapel]

From Planetf1.com:

Michelin-Losers
Clearly coming to a race with tyres that weren?t safe after just ten laps was one of the biggest miscalculations in motor-racing history. Let?s make no bones about it, it?s thanks to Michelin we had a rubbish race.

Even the tyres they flew in that had been used in Barcelona they weren?t that sure about. In mitigation, Bridgestone probably didn?t share all the tyre data they amassed during the Indy 500 and the Indy situation isn?t replicated anywhere else.

What the incident has done is force the teams towards a one-tyre formula which at the end of the day, is no bad thing. It?s better to have a World Championship for cars and drivers than one for tyre manufacturers.

Having made their BIG mistake and acknowledged it early, Bernie Ecclestone, the FIA and Ferrari did everything possible to make them pay for it.

[Julian Mayo]

The only thing Bernie did was hide

[Byron Forbes]

Having made their BIG mistake and acknowledged it early, Bernie Ecclestone, the FIA and Ferrari did everything possible to make them pay for it.

It's amazing how stupid that all those who forced this situation are - talk about crapping in your own yard!

[Byron Forbes]

It really is just so laughable. They really have learnt from politicians ie hide behind the system like a gutless little twerp - a pitiful system at that. The hysterically insane situation of going to teams, like Ferrari, and saying "Do you mind if we deprive you of the opportunity of certain points for you and certain no points for most of your competitors. Do you mind if we deprive you of the opportunity to potentially salvage your hopeless season?".

Really quite funny.

Stand up and take charge you overpaid spineless sissys!

My solution - let all teams run on Bridgestones for that event. A rule along these lines should be implemented immediately. Without any consultation with teams or tyre manufacturers either! They could have allowed extra testing so teams could make the required adjustments even on the Sunday morning. With only 3 Bridgestone teams however, quantity may have been an issue - doubtful though

[F1greyhound]

Quote Charlie Whiting:

On Saturday, Michelin said it would advise its teams not to race if the new tyres could not be used. But FIA Formula One race director Charlie Whiting made it clear that the governing body would not suspend the rules, and it was up to Michelin and the teams to look after their drivers' safety.

"No doubt you will inform your teams what is the maximum safe speed for their cars in turn 13," Whiting wrote. "We will remind them of the need to follow your advice for safety reasons. We will also ask them to ensure their cars do not obstruct other competitors."

As to the use of newly arrived tyres, Whiting said it would be a breach of rules to be considered by the stewards, and while the penalty would likely not be exclusion, it would have to be heavy enough to deter teams from similar actions in the future.

Whiting suggested that the affected teams, which include world championship front runners Renault and McLaren, could change any affected tyre during the race, which is allowed under the rules for safety reasons.

"If the technical delegate and the stewards were satisfied that each change was made because the tyre would otherwise fail... and that the relevant team were not gaining an advantage, there would be no penalty," he said.


This was reasonable and fair, MICHELIN teams could have either restricted the revs or changed tyres a few times and doing so they would have made a real race possible. But imagine Ron asking for 17.000 revs, Flavio for 17.250 and Frank for 17.500. Ron wanting a tyre change each 12 laps, Flavio 14 and Frank 16.............and so on. Most certainly the teamchefs couldnt agree on anything and so they rather harmed the sport.

And some of you jokers blame BRIDGESTONE and FERRARI. Come On!

[Kapel]

Quote Charlie Whiting:

On Saturday, Michelin said it would advise its teams not to race if the new tyres could not be used. But FIA Formula One race director Charlie Whiting made it clear that the governing body would not suspend the rules, and it was up to Michelin and the teams to look after their drivers' safety.

"No doubt you will inform your teams what is the maximum safe speed for their cars in turn 13," Whiting wrote. "We will remind them of the need to follow your advice for safety reasons. We will also ask them to ensure their cars do not obstruct other competitors."

As to the use of newly arrived tyres, Whiting said it would be a breach of rules to be considered by the stewards, and while the penalty would likely not be exclusion, it would have to be heavy enough to deter teams from similar actions in the future.

Whiting suggested that the affected teams, which include world championship front runners Renault and McLaren, could change any affected tyre during the race, which is allowed under the rules for safety reasons.

"If the technical delegate and the stewards were satisfied that each change was made because the tyre would otherwise fail... and that the relevant team were not gaining an advantage, there would be no penalty," he said.


This was reasonable and fair, MICHELIN teams could have either restricted the revs or changed tyres a few times and doing so they would have made a real race possible. But imagine Ron asking for 17.000 revs, Flavio for 17.250 and Frank for 17.500. Ron wanting a tyre change each 12 laps, Flavio 14 and Frank 16.............and so on. Most certainly the teamchefs couldnt agree on anything and so they rather harmed the sport.

And some of you jokers blame BRIDGESTONE and FERRARI. Come On!

[Byron Forbes]

This is a summary of Ralf Schumacher's Friday practice -

Second Session Classification: 24th, 2 laps completed No lap time

....then he hits the wall. What do all the geniuses that say the Michelin runners could go out and pit in if the tyres were reguarded as dangerous have to say about this? Utter nonsense! You're following in the footsteps of the fools that are the FIA and co!

The track was dangerous and Bridgestone have a case to answer for non disclosure - maybe IMS do also depending on how aware of the situation they were. The FIA are guilty of proposing that the teams could do this and that, when this and that was clearly dangerous - complete stupidity!

The moral to the story so far is that Bridgestone have been rewarded with all the points available from this race as a reward for wreckless non disclosure. This is a simple fact.

[GhoGho]

OK guys, I can understand and share the frustration we all endured with the debacle called the US GRAND PRIX 2005.
What must be remembered is that this is a sport, and like all sports there are a ton of rules involved. As a fan of F1 for many years I do not claim to know or understand the multitude of rules which exist, (some rules are just plain dumb) but the rules are the rules and can?t (and shouldn?t) be changed just because!
The teams and team managers were all an inocent part of Michelins screwing up, but being the USA where everyone seems to be ?sue happy?, it left the managers with no alternative other than not to race. (or face legal action should someone get hurt).
The tyres flown in by Michelin were also regarded as ?unsafe to race? (by Michelin!!!!) so that was also not an option.
If Michelin recalled all their road tyres on extreme safety issues would you send your wife to the store in your Michelin shod minivan? (OK OK some of you might .............)

Michelin requesting the organizers and FIA to change the course (a breach of some obscure rule) in order to slow the cars down at turn 12 and 13 was also absurd, sort of like Titleist asking the organizers of the US Masters or British Open to let players using their golf balls tee off from the ladies tee because their balls don?t fly as far as their competitors!

Lets lay the blame squarely where it needs to be ? MICHELIN SCREWED UP!

Yes a sad day for Formula 1 indeed, lets hope this sort of thing does not happen again.

[F1greyhound]

Bryan Forbes, how pathetic can your views get?

You have nothing to back up this weird conspiracy theory about BRIDGESTONE knowing about the specific problems at Indy through Firestone and so on. Thats pure b0ll0cks.

Yes, Ralf crashed early on but MICHELIN admitted his tyre pressure had been too low as well.

MICHELIN are working with soft sided tyres ever since and it has earned them many victories, incl.some on deformable illegal tyres. In Indy luck turned against them. The reaction of their teams however was wrong as they still could have raced, slightly slower through turn 13 plus tyre changes and that way they would have fought at least for place 5 if not 3. It would still have been an exciting race. They did all the harm to the sport rather than MICHELIN as such. The proposals of Charlie Whiting were reasonable but the teamchefs(of M teams) would have had to agree on identical measures which they proved unable to do.

There has been no damage done to the Championship, probably this bit of luck for the BRIDGESTONE teams was even fair. But for this one GP and all spectators the damage done is huge.

Expect a turn of things in this tyre Championship....

[Byron Forbes]

Bryan Forbes, how pathetic can your views get?

You have nothing to back up this weird conspiracy theory about BRIDGESTONE knowing about the specific problems at Indy through Firestone and so on. Thats pure b0ll0cks.

Yes, Ralf crashed early on but MICHELIN admitted his tyre pressure had been too low as well.

MICHELIN are working with soft sided tyres ever since and it has earned them many victories, incl.some on deformable illegal tyres. In Indy luck turned against them. The reaction of their teams however was wrong as they still could have raced, slightly slower through turn 13 plus tyre changes and that way they would have fought at least for place 5 if not 3. It would still have been an exciting race. They did all the harm to the sport rather than MICHELIN as such. The proposals of Charlie Whiting were reasonable but the teamchefs(of M teams) would have had to agree on identical measures which they proved unable to do.

There has been no damage done to the Championship, probably this bit of luck for the BRIDGESTONE teams was even fair. But for this one GP and all spectators the damage done is huge.

Expect a turn of things in this tyre Championship....

Quite hilarious that, after getting the spelling of my name wrong as well, you ask me "how pathetic can your views get?" and then go on to talk about how good the idea of driving slowly thru T13 is. You're as nutty as Whiting!

As for the rest, your failure to read up on this issue is not my problem and you are clearly uninformed on most issues. Bridgestone have bragged about the edge they had from the data they got from Firestone at the Indy500 from day 1.

[F1greyhound]

Ok Byron, sorry for the wrong spelling.

Obviously you have the only right theory, however what would you have suggested? Let us share your brilliant ideas....Im already sure you have more to offer than Mr.Whiting..

BTW the experience MICHELIN has made in 5 years at Indy certainly must count more than the BRIDGESTONE-FIRESTONE link.

MICHELIN had good tyres at Indy for 5 years. This year when the tyres should last the whole meeting they blow up eventually after 2 laps. That is at fault, and the FIA reacted in a tolerant way under acceptance of the rules.

Had it been BRIDGESTONEs problem you would probably feel greatly amused about FERRARI pulling out of the Indy GP and you would state how ridiculous it is for BRIDGESTONE to ask for a chicane or something.

Apart from that, the chicane might have slowed down all cars by max.20 kph. Would MICHELIN have been able to guarantee the safety then?


Cheers!

[Cliffc]

I always hear how F-1 is the greatest racing in the world with the best drivers. Well since I was so impressed with the U.S Grand Prix I thought I'd share a couple thoughts:

1) Why was Ralf sitting out the race, had he soiled all the underwear he had on the trip?

2) In racing you come prepared to race and don't continue to talk about the MASSIVE 9 degree banking in turn 13.

3) Did Michelin forget about that MASSIVE 9 degree banking from previous years? It's been there since 1909.

4) Did anyone consider the tires letting go were both on the same team? Was there a setup adjustment that could have been changed? Or are these cars so controlled by computers that set up is a thing of the past? Seems like the drivers need only to worry about the steering wheel and the push button tranny. Everything else is controlled by the latest from Dell. (Open the pod bay doors HAL)

5) Why did NASCAR'S Jeff Gordon match Jaun Pablo Montoya's laps during a practice session last year at INDY. He had never sat in a Formula 1 car before.

Keep your illusions up F-1 fans, yea, your series is the greatest. I doubt you'll see the Indy Motor Speedway again and most race fans in the U.S. won't care.

[GhoGho]

Ok Byron, sorry for the wrong spelling.

Obviously you have the only right theory, however what would you have suggested? Let us share your brilliant ideas....Im already sure you have more to offer than Mr.Whiting..

BTW the experience MICHELIN has made in 5 years at Indy certainly must count more than the BRIDGESTONE-FIRESTONE link.

MICHELIN had good tyres at Indy for 5 years. This year when the tyres should last the whole meeting they blow up eventually after 2 laps. That is at fault, and the FIA reacted in a tolerant way under acceptance of the rules.

Had it been BRIDGESTONEs problem you would probably feel greatly amused about FERRARI pulling out of the Indy GP and you would state how ridiculous it is for BRIDGESTONE to ask for a chicane or something.

Apart from that, the chicane might have slowed down all cars by max.20 kph. Would MICHELIN have been able to guarantee the safety then?


Cheers!

What he said!

Another consideration is the car setup, particularly brakes! Williams (and i assume other teams also) run much lighter and thinner brake disks in the US due to the lack of real braking areas on the circuit, adding a chicane would not only slow the cars, but also place additional wear on these important items. Would Michelin take responsability for brake failure at 200+ mph? I think not.
again MICHELIN SCREWED UP!

[rah]

I think everyone should take a deep breath. We all come to this forum to enjoy ourselves, not get angry at each other. Yes there will be a difference of views. Accept it and enjoy.

[rah]

I always hear how F-1 is the greatest racing in the world with the best drivers. Well since I was so impressed with the U.S Grand Prix I thought I'd share a couple thoughts:

1) Why was Ralf sitting out the race, had he soiled all the underwear he had on the trip?

2) In racing you come prepared to race and don't continue to talk about the MASSIVE 9 degree banking in turn 13.

3) Did Michelin forget about that MASSIVE 9 degree banking from previous years? It's been there since 1909.

4) Did anyone consider the tires letting go were both on the same team? Was there a setup adjustment that could have been changed? Or are these cars so controlled by computers that set up is a thing of the past? Seems like the drivers need only to worry about the steering wheel and the push button tranny. Everything else is controlled by the latest from Dell. (Open the pod bay doors HAL)

5) Why did NASCAR'S Jeff Gordon match Jaun Pablo Montoya's laps during a practice session last year at INDY. He had never sat in a Formula 1 car before.

Keep your illusions up F-1 fans, yea, your series is the greatest. I doubt you'll see the Indy Motor Speedway again and most race fans in the U.S. won't care.

Just in case you didn't notice, this is a site for F1 fans. If all you are doing is saying how bad F1 is and how good american racing is then maybe you might look at a more open forum. But welcome anyway.