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Byron Forbes wrote:

Kapel wrote:

Byron Forbes wrote:Further more, as payback for the fiasco of Williams being dragged thru the Italian courts over Senna's death, Frank Williams should go full bore after Ferrari for criminal negligence also. They also had knowledge of track irregularities that they failed to be forthcoming with, almost resulting in serious injury or fatality to Ralf Schumacher.

Go get 'em Frank!

Did u watch cricket on Saturday & Sunday??

Is that supposed to be a swipe at me or cricket fans?

Byron Forbes wrote:

Kapel wrote:

Byron Forbes wrote:Further more, as payback for the fiasco of Williams being dragged thru the Italian courts over Senna's death, Frank Williams should go full bore after Ferrari for criminal negligence also. They also had knowledge of track irregularities that they failed to be forthcoming with, almost resulting in serious injury or fatality to Ralf Schumacher.

Go get 'em Frank!

Did u watch cricket on Saturday & Sunday??

Is that supposed to be a swipe at me or cricket fans?

Just trying to cool u down mate.Also now, i'm tired of arguing in this matter.
But just wanna mention,Michelin is to be blamed & not bridgestone(even if they had info from Firestone,i think non of the competitors share their info unless in extreme conditions.The best is allow one day of testing on the resurfaced track .)

Kapel wrote:

Byron Forbes wrote:

Kapel wrote:
Did u watch cricket on Saturday & Sunday??

Is that supposed to be a swipe at me or cricket fans?

Just trying to cool u down mate.Also now, i'm tired of arguing in this matter.
But just wanna mention,Michelin is to be blamed & not bridgestone(even if they had info from Firestone,i think non of the competitors share their info unless in extreme conditions.The best is allow one day of testing on the resurfaced track .)

Tired of arguing!! where is your stamina? Some of us have been arguing for 15 -16 hours !!!

Lost my stamina,lost my interest(until next GP) & its not going anywhere

Better switch to lounge

This was as strange a "race" as I remember ever seeing in F1. After the correspondance between Michelin and the FIA was made public, I was sure that the race would only be completed by 6 cars, I actually thought that the Michelin shod teams would take the start, and possiblu run a short first stint, then retire in the pits.

Looking back that was likely not going to happen, due to the side issue of the GPWC / FIA disagreements. The GPWC used this debacle to make a collective statement as well.

With the issue being safety of the Michelin tires, neither of Jordan or Minardi could follow the Michelin teams into the pits, Stoddard has managed to become my least liked person in F1, and his contined commenting on matters F1 have pulled me away from a 15 year support of team Minardi.

I do not agree that the rules do not allow for a tyre change, the sporting code article 74, section a clearly allow for that, when the tire is in danger of failing, so all the teams had the option, but they could no refuel at the same stop, so it would have slowed them down, this is the reason that Michael Schumacher's first stop was so slow, first they checked the tire, then they refuelled.

The chicane was never going to happen, and flying in tires would have set a bad presedent.

I refuse to belive in a sinister Fireastone / Bridgestone alliance, it is the basic design of the Michelin tires that is at fault, they aer running a tiers, with "soft" side, that is never going to be stable, secure, strong enough on a banked curve at speed, unless they make it so hard, that thay wil lose their clear edge over Bridgestone.

I place all!! the blamce on Michelin, 2 weeks ago their design concept cost Kimi R?ikk?nnen a win, and this weekend their design concept cost all their contracted teams a Grand Prix.

As surreal as the "race" was the points are fully earned points, and in my view count equallly to the WDC and WCC tally at the end of the seson, there is little reason yet, to think that Michael Schumacher will challenge Fernando Alonso, but if at the end of the season Michael Schumacher clinches the WCC with 1 point more than Alonso, Renault can go to Bibendum and complain.

Exactly.

Thanks K-D.
I have been the only one putting the blame entirely on Michelin,without much support.
Now i'm just tired to explain things to anyone.

The crying & complaining shall start from next race itself

K-D wrote:I do not agree that the rules do not allow for a tyre change, the sporting code article 74, section a clearly allow for that, when the tire is in danger of failing, so all the teams had the option, but they could no refuel at the same stop, so it would have slowed them down, this is the reason that Michael Schumacher's first stop was so slow, first they checked the tire, then they refuelled.

No man, it's not that way, the team can change the tyre to an other of the SAME type!!! no to an other spec!!! that was the problem. for friday they have to have 2 specs for selecting, after that you can only use the one you choosed (each driver have 2(? 3?) sets of it in case a change is needed).

Kapel wrote:Just trying to cool u down mate.Also now, i'm tired of arguing in this matter.

If you remain cool after a pathetic outcome like that then I think you've confused cool with carelessness.

But just wanna mention,Michelin is to be blamed & not bridgestone(even if they had info from Firestone,i think non of the competitors share their info unless in extreme conditions.The best is allow one day of testing on the resurfaced track .)

Gee wizz, what qualifies as "extreme conditions". You need to see Ralf or any Michelin driver splattered all over the fence? I can't see it being much more extreme.

The facts are that Michelin are utterly useless for not having a tyre that could withstand such riggors. But for me, this is overshadowed by the fact that Bridgestone had knowledge about the danger of that part of the track and their failure to share it is unsporting at best and I dare say maybe even criminal. I would have no problem seeing criminal charges laid against Bridgestone and anyone on any of the Bridgestone teams that was aware of this situation. You can't tell me that Bridgestone don't realise the danger the Michelin runners were put in as a result of their failure to share this knowlegde. This is overstepping the line between sporting competitiveness and human decency.

Remember the last episode of Seinfeld?

Kapel wrote:

sgd wrote:bad michelin, but even worse FIA... why not just permit a tyre change for all the teams, just for this race???????
FIA stinks!
anyway I doubt ferrari would accepted it...

Y should Ferrari agree,sgd

Would the likes of Mclaren,Renaults ,Williams have agreed if the situation was reversed.

Isnt it easy to blame Ferrari for everything.

This is i think the 6th race here & Michelins couldnt get it rgt,so its Ferrari's fault.Y? Only cos they didnt allow to build the chicane??If Ferrari had suggested a chicane in Bahrain,would the other teams have agreed??
Can i please have ur comments here ,Mr.SGD!!!

What the hell??????????????
1.I even didn't mentioned the word "chicane"...
2.I'm not blaming ferrari!!!!!!!!!! i said "bad michelin, but even worse FIA" I blame them for this!!!!!! of course the most guilty is FIA!!! why? because after Michline accepted its fault it is the FIA who should find a solution, a reaonable penalty for the micheline temas, something... and not just say "f@#$ you all" ....

I BLAME FIA!!!
BUT! would ferrari join the other 9 teams for the sake of the sport, of the fans out there, the problem would be a lot easer to solve.

STILL PLEASE READ THIS:

I BLAME FIA!!!!

K-D wrote:I place all!! the blamce on Michelin, 2 weeks ago their design concept cost Kimi R?ikk?nnen a win, and this weekend their design concept cost all their contracted teams a Grand Prix.|

Michelin were there the last 2 years - no problems. There is no doubt that the resurfaced track is the difference and Bridgestone had priveleged information that any decent, resposible human being would have shared. This is criminal neglect.

sgd wrote:BUT! would ferrari join the other 9 teams for the sake of the sport, of the fans out there, the problem would be a lot easer to solve.

I would just like to reverse the question,Would the "group of 7 or 9" helped ferrari in the way u want Ferrari to join them???? FOR THE SAKE OF FANS.I very much doubt it.

Sgd,there is a clear rift between Ferarri & other teams,i dont expect them to come to one conclusion ever, which is sad for us fans

ONLY Michelins are to be blamed.FIA,mayb ,for the way they handled things,but started it???

The teams, manufacturers and tyre companies should get no say in anything. They should be consulted, but to ask them if something is ok with them is just hysterically funny. The "powers" that be are as weak as XXXX !

Byron Forbes wrote:The teams, manufacturers and tyre companies should get no say in anything. They should be consulted, but to ask them if something is ok with them is just hysterically funny. The "powers" that be are as weak as XXXX !

With this idea,how do u expect GPWC to succed

Kapel wrote:Yes Graham, i would prefer a NO show,if the drivers were at risk & the other teams gets benefit,like US GP.
But the spectators there have to be taken into consideration,mayb just a shoot out-non-championship race of 12 laps or something should have been done.I dunno,but what happened was bad & it would have been worse if Michelin gave up in the middle of race with some fatal injuries.

N do u believe Michelin were 100% of their tyres with a chicane??Couldnt they have suggested to save their faces & if GOD-forbid,something had happened,blame it on the newly built chicane.

Graham,things seems too political here,with the exact truth unknown to us.Theres Brand image at stake for Michelin here.
We'll never know the truth.We can just speculate & voice our thoughts.

I am with you mate. And just for the record, I am glad I didn't watch the cricket. But not as glad as I am that I didn't stay up until 4am for the F1.