United States Grand Prix (Michael Schumacher wins!)

[Kapel]

NO penalties for drivers or teams ONLY Michelins.I think they went overboard trying to push FIA by blackmailing them on the boycotting of the race,which they did eventually,N now they should pay the price

[F1greyhound]

There is no way the FIA could penalize MICHELIN, they have no contract with each other.

[Kapel]

There is no way the FIA could penalize MICHELIN, they have no contract with each other.

I know, thats such a pity.I hope the M teams dont get their brunt for it.
Mayb the teams would be asked not to use Michelin from 2006

[GhoGho]

stripping the teams of points would be ok....not drivers though

Agreed!!! A concockted drivers cahmpionship would be meaningless to any driver, and the drivers appear to be blameles!

[GhoGho]

There is no way the FIA could penalize MICHELIN, they have no contract with each other.

I know, thats such a pity.I hope the M teams dont get their brunt for it.
Mayb the teams would be asked not to use Michelin from 2006

A one tyre championship would probably be more interesting anyway

[jnc]

The M teams simply failed to agree on something feasible, they speculated to find a solution which would give them a chance to still beat FERRARI.

Huh? The Michelin teams offered to run their cars for no points at all, if a chicane was installed. How on earth is that "a solution which would give them a chance to still beat FERRARI"?

[jnc]

Additionally, you have it black on white, they would have been allowed to change the left rear tyre to their liking according to the rules for safety reasons.

Alas, that was not made definite in Charlie Whiting's pre-race letter (go read it).

Also, as someone pointed out somewhere else, Ralf's tire failed on lap two of his run (not sure how many, if any, laps it had on it before that, though), so the claims of "good for ten laps" have to be taken with a grain of salt, in which case it's not clear that the "change them a lot" was a real solution.

[jnc]

It is clear that there is way more politics going on here between the manufacturers, Bernie, FIA, etc. and that this was a 'convinient' issue for the teams to take Bernie on ... The teams clearly were trying to show a unified message that they are more powerful than Bernie and they they will shut down a GP if they don't get their way. Bernie and the FIA clearly are out to show that that isn't the case.

Ah, did you see the transcript of Bernie's chat (on the grid) with Martin Brundle? He said "The incident's not the fault of the teams, to be honest with you.", so I doubt it's teams going up against Bernie.

But I agree with there is politics behind it, but it's Max who's the other player. It's clear, looking at how hard he leaned on poor old Tony George (who had *nothing* to do with this) that he was out to screw people. And I'm not surprised Tony is livid (which is why, I suspect, that Bernie said that F1 is finished in the US - no promoter will trust Max not to screw them)

They obviously were super aggresive on compound choices seeking the absolute 10/10ths of performance and this time got caught out. They have been borderline on a few other races this year with tire survivability but have been happy to take the points over the clearly more conservative Bridgetone.

Actually, there's now a report on ITV-F1 that says it was a problem with faulty materials, not a "pushing the envelope" issue. Of course, that could be just disinformation to cover their behinds. But still, if they really were on the edge, *and knew it*, you'd have thought they'd have brought a backup tire just in case...

Nobody pulled out of those races, again it was just part of racing.

Nobody is disputing that Michelin screwed up, and that they and their teams should suffer the consequences in terms of lost points, etc. The issue is why the FIA was so pig-headed and refused to do anything for the fans.

Where does that end ? hmm.. my aero package isn't working well here so I demand a new corner ?

I have one word for you: *SAFETY*. The issue here was *not* performance, but rather safety.

Individual teams have in the past pulled the cars before the race for safety reasons, with no big hoo-hah made. What was unusual about this case (as you pointed out) was that the safety issue caught so many cars.

Race for no points ? Talk about a farce, have 14 non-competing cars circulating with 6 racers ? With the 2 race engine rules etc. why would I even seriously run my engine at anything like race pace in a race where I couldn't win.

Good point, but I think it just goes to show that the Michelin teams cared about the fans - which you *definitely* cannot say about Max (from his own mouth - see the transcript of his press conference).

Bottom line is that the Michelin cars arrived at a F1 with a mechanical package that wasn't capable of the performance required. Sucks to be them but it's not going to be the last time a team gets it wrong and doesn't have a competitive package. That the Michelin teams would rather toss the toys out of the cot and not compete at all shows how little they really value their fans.

Please tattoo the word "SAFETY" in large, friendly letters on your forehead.

If they just wanted to screw the FIA (which, I cheerfully concede, is something they would almost certainly like to do), why did they offer to run for no points (i.e. if they were really hell-bent on bailing out and making the FIA look bad as a result).

[Byron Forbes]

Additionally, you have it black on white, they would have been allowed to change the left rear tyre to their liking according to the rules for safety reasons.

Alas, that was not made definite in Charlie Whiting's pre-race letter (go read it).

Also, as someone pointed out somewhere else, Ralf's tire failed on lap two of his run (not sure how many, if any, laps it had on it before that, though), so the claims of "good for ten laps" have to be taken with a grain of salt, in which case it's not clear that the "change them a lot" was a real solution.

Exactly!

Can you imagine? - "Ah, It looks like you just blew a tyre and tore the entire left side of the car away on the wall there driver. I think it's time to come in and change that left rear on the grounds of safety."

[Byron Forbes]

Agreed, no F1 team tested at IMS.
Fact - Hisao Suganuma, Technical Manager, said: ?Sections of the circuit have been resurfaced since last year but have been ?diamond ground? to avoid any change in the nature of the track. This has been confirmed by our colleagues at Bridgestone/Firestone North America who have extensive experience of this circuit having recently completed a successful Indy 500."

Misinformation or crude guess - take your pick. If the track is no different then the resurfacing was a complete failure and a complete waste of time? Did I hear something about "tripe"?

Tony George at the press conference -
"We are pleased to announce that the $40Million resurfacing program has been a complete success. The net result of the resurfacing is absolutely nothing whatsoever."

At this point, poor old Tony, looking a bit befuddled, turns to a bloke over in the corner (reading a MAD magazine) and whispers -
"Hey Jim, is this right buddy?"

Fair dinkum!

False - Ralph had an accident there last year. the cause was THOUGHT to be caused by carbon fibre shards, but the actual cause was never proven!
Michelin has also had tire failures this year prior to the US GP. Perhaps their more agressive approach to the tire war finally let them down? Remember they apparently have a totally different tire construction to the Bridgstone.

You forgot to remind us that Bridgestone have had no failures this year! Oh, wait a sec.....................

Believe what you like, but the fact is firestone reported no change to the nature of the track due to resurfacing.
Here in the US it was reported that the new surface had caused problems for both NASCAR (goodyear tires) and IRL (firestone) when they tested at IMS after the resurfacing, BEFORE the diamond grinding took place. This is PRECISELY why the surface was diamond ground - to rectify the situation. This apparently was achieved as both Nascar and Indy ran without problems, so Goodyear, Firestone and Bridgestone have all run the circuit without problems.
I do not for a moment believe that Michelin are stupid, their results so far this season would suggest otherwise, maybe their conservative tyre only had a harder compound and not a different (more conservative)construction?

Repeat chorus.

BYRON FORBES WROTE
I'm not sure exactly what the rules and procedures are with testing, but they're certainly FIA controlled.

Agreed - find out exactly what the rules are before you spout forth all sorts of tripe.

Funny how the next thing you say (below) backs me up 100%

False - Unlike many circuits on the F1 calender IMS is used frequently for other forms of racing in a totaly different configuration. The track was not ready for use by anyone until late on thursday afternoon with work crews finishing off preparations well into the evening.
Besides the fact that the cicuit was not ready, the rules are such that no additional testing/ practice will be permitted unless the circuit is new to all participants (such as China when the first race was run there)

I thought you were trying to prove me stupid? (see above)

BYRON FORBES WROTE
Fact - everyone wants to point the finger at Michelin, ignoring all other factors.

Agreed - one monumental C*CK UP BY MICHELIN!

Umm, well yes, we can agree you're "ignoring all other factors"!

Not entirely true, the FIA (read Bernie Max and Co.) are pretty pissed off with Michelin, especially after the tire manufacturers were warned about producing substandard tires, but they do know where their money comes from.
We will all have to wait and see what the repercussions are as far as "hitbacks" are concerned.

Lets all see if a more conservative approach by michelin will be adopted and if so will it be as competitive?

You mean like Bridgestone's at Spain - could you use your extensive knowledge to inform us if they even test there as well?

PS - Do you have any other interesting "Conspiracy Theories" to share with the rest of us clueless people?

repeat chorus

[Graham Ross]

You forgot to remind us that Bridgestone have had no failures this year! Oh, wait a sec.....................

What surprises me is that many (it seems mainly from the Ferrari/Bridgestone camp) are calling for Michelin to be kicked out as if Bridgestone never had issues with their tyres!

Early in the season the Bridgestones couldn't handle the heat and in Spain Michael had 2 tyre failures.

When you have two suppliers you'd expect very serious competition and errors will occur. I have no doubt in my mind that Michelin should have advised the teams to pull out full stop, no option. Now the teams are being charged with disrepute for trying to put on a show for the fans. Had they said sorry we can't race the FIA could do nothing about it. Just like teams pull out for wing failures.

[rah]

Maybe instead of two brands, we need another tyre manufacturer

[Kapel]

You forgot to remind us that Bridgestone have had no failures this year! Oh, wait a sec.....................

What surprises me is that many (it seems mainly from the Ferrari/Bridgestone camp) are calling for Michelin to be kicked out as if Bridgestone never had issues with their tyres!

Early in the season the Bridgestones couldn't handle the heat and in Spain Michael had 2 tyre failures.

When you have two suppliers you'd expect very serious competition and errors will occur. I have no doubt in my mind that Michelin should have advised the teams to pull out full stop, no option. Now the teams are being charged with disrepute for trying to put on a show for the fans. Had they said sorry we can't race the FIA could do nothing about it. Just like teams pull out for wing failures.

I agree Graham that bridgestone have been far inferior to Michelin in the early part of the season.But the topic here is not the performance of earlier races,but in USGP.Michelin forgot to get good tyre for the race.

But i havent read anywhere that anyone is asking for Michelin to be thrown out of the competition.(speculation mayb for the 29th).Even i've mentioned that no penalties should be levied on the M teams & Michelins should be asked to compensate for the fans in US.I think i sound fair But the only trouble is FIA have no contract /controlled with the tyres manufacturers.

MAyb one tyre next yr should atleast throw out the possibility of USGP sometime in future.

We are experiencing one of the great season,particularly because of the tyres(Even within M teams the tyres are behaving differently) & hope FIA doesnt spoil the season by deducting points from the M teams.

[Julian Mayo]

Maybe instead of two brands, we need another tyre manufacturer

Oh, yeah, then we can have two Indy type incidents a year!!!!

[Julian Mayo]

You forgot to remind us that Bridgestone have had no failures this year! Oh, wait a sec.....................

What surprises me is that many (it seems mainly from the Ferrari/Bridgestone camp) are calling for Michelin to be kicked out as if Bridgestone never had issues with their tyres!

Early in the season the Bridgestones couldn't handle the heat and in Spain Michael had 2 tyre failures.

When you have two suppliers you'd expect very serious competition and errors will occur. I have no doubt in my mind that Michelin should have advised the teams to pull out full stop, no option. Now the teams are being charged with disrepute for trying to put on a show for the fans. Had they said sorry we can't race the FIA could do nothing about it. Just like teams pull out for wing failures.

I agree Graham that bridgestone have been far inferior to Michelin in the early part of the season.But the topic here is not the performance of earlier races,but in USGP.Michelin forgot to get good tyre for the race.

But i havent read anywhere that anyone is asking for Michelin to be thrown out of the competition.(speculation mayb for the 29th).Even i've mentioned that no penalties should be levied on the M teams & Michelins should be asked to compensate for the fans in US.I think i sound fair But the only trouble is FIA have no contract /controlled with the tyres manufacturers.

MAyb one tyre next yr should atleast throw out the possibility of USGP sometime in future.

We are experiencing one of the great season,particularly because of the tyres(Even within M teams the tyres are behaving differently) & hope FIA doesnt spoil the season by deducting points from the M teams.

Kappy, you should know by now that the FIA reads all the posts all over the world, and whatever the fans need, want or hope for, they do the opposite, They must, because no organization could possibly get it so wrong so often....could they