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You're right, julian mayo, her performances on the IndyCar series' three non-oval races(St. Petersburg, Infineon, and Watkins Glen) should clarify her future a lot, since up to now Patrick's raced all but a few of her Atlantic and Barber Dodge races(from mid-02' to late 04') on road and street courses, the exception being the 1-mile concrete oval known as The Milwaukee Mile(where she finished 6th in 03' and 4th in 04'). Of the three non-oval events, she finished 12th at St.Pete, having nursed a wounded car back to the finish after losing 5th gear midway through the race. Infineon's a road course that is tight, twisty, and long, with few long straights(except for the Carousel straight which normally forms Infineon's drag-racing track) and the final straight going to the last-turn hairpin. Watkins Glen's a 3.37-mile road course that last hosted an Indy-style even in 1981(it also hosted F1 events through the 1970's, as well) known for a couple of features, such as the Esses(turns 2-3-4) leading to the long back-straight, and the boot section, which includes a steep, downhill section leading back to the track's NASCAR back-straight and around to the start line. If past Atlantics' results are a guide, she should do okay. In 2003-2004, she had five podium finishes, including a runner-up at Miami in 03'(street race) and 14 top-5 finsihes in 24 starts. Also, she was the only Atlantic driver in 04' to complete every lap of competition, ending 3rd in the final points table. My prediction, julian...she should do okay; she might not win either race, but she'll fight every lap of both races.

mlittle wrote:You're right, julian mayo, her performances on the IndyCar series' three non-oval races(St. Petersburg, Infineon, and Watkins Glen) should clarify her future a lot, since up to now Patrick's raced all but a few of her Atlantic and Barber Dodge races(from mid-02' to late 04') on road and street courses, the exception being the 1-mile concrete oval known as The Milwaukee Mile(where she finished 6th in 03' and 4th in 04'). Of the three non-oval events, she finished 12th at St.Pete, having nursed a wounded car back to the finish after losing 5th gear midway through the race. Infineon's a road course that is tight, twisty, and long, with few long straights(except for the Carousel straight which normally forms Infineon's drag-racing track) and the final straight going to the last-turn hairpin. Watkins Glen's a 3.37-mile road course that last hosted an Indy-style even in 1981(it also hosted F1 events through the 1970's, as well) known for a couple of features, such as the Esses(turns 2-3-4) leading to the long back-straight, and the boot section, which includes a steep, downhill section leading back to the track's NASCAR back-straight and around to the start line. If past Atlantics' results are a guide, she should do okay. In 2003-2004, she had five podium finishes, including a runner-up at Miami in 03'(street race) and 14 top-5 finsihes in 24 starts. Also, she was the only Atlantic driver in 04' to complete every lap of competition, ending 3rd in the final points table. My prediction, julian...she should do okay; she might not win either race, but she'll fight every lap of both races.

I eagerly await the outcomes! Keep us posted on developments, please

Like I said to JayVee in an earlier post, I'll do my level best. Speaking of which, I notice you're a big fan of Danica Patrick's, what with that nice phrase at the end of your postings, "Danica Patrick, future WDC!"(if I'm not mistaken). Unless they've changed the lead story on the IndyCar series' website(www.indycar.com), there's a pretty good story about her ready-made status as a role model, which according to the story she seems to handle like a born champion, just as past drivers had to deal w/the media and expectations. Check out the story, if you have the chance.

mlittle wrote:Like I said to JayVee in an earlier post, I'll do my level best. Speaking of which, I notice you're a big fan of Danica Patrick's, what with that nice phrase at the end of your postings, "Danica Patrick, future WDC!"(if I'm not mistaken). Unless they've changed the lead story on the IndyCar series' website(www.indycar.com), there's a pretty good story about her ready-made status as a role model, which according to the story she seems to handle like a born champion, just as past drivers had to deal w/the media and expectations. Check out the story, if you have the chance.

Yup, seen it, and visited her web site, I am fast becoming a fan! The young lady seems to have a smart head on her shoulders, and what it takes to make it in a tough game

julian mayo wrote:

<T-K> wrote:Doubt it

which of the salient points do you doubt?

I would just like to make it clear that i would love to see her in F1, its just that i doubt she will get in, and even if she does, i dont think she will get very far, her looks(which i can only say ) can only get her so far.

If you compare JPM`s previous records in the U.S (before F1), and Danica`s, JPM wins hands down, and look at JPM, hasnt ever won an F1 championship....now i dont know if you see my point of view, but it is worth a shot trying to explain..

<T-K> wrote:

julian mayo wrote:

<T-K> wrote:Doubt it

which of the salient points do you doubt?

I would just like to make it clear that i would love to see her in F1, its just that i doubt she will get in, and even if she does, i dont think she will get very far, her looks(which i can only say ) can only get her so far.

If you compare JPM`s previous records in the U.S (before F1), and Danica`s, JPM wins hands down, and look at JPM, hasnt ever won an F1 championship....now i dont know if you see my point of view, but it is worth a shot trying to explain..

Yup., but you are overlooking the psychology of the two. One is strong willed, determined,focused and has ablilty,: the other can't drive past a KFC without stopping

Quoting from <T-K>'s posting:(paraphrasing)
"If you compare JPM's previous records in the U.S.(before F1), and Danica's, JPM wins hands down..."

If I got your quotation, T-K, wrong in paraphrase, I apologize now. But as to your point...
I just checked the ChampCar and IRL records archives(it's 8 PM Eastern Daylight here in NC, 20 June, or around 0:00 GMT, 21 June) and it's a mixed record. Of the races that Juan Pablo Montoya and Danica Patrick either were or will be in, there are only five tracks that they have in common--Homestead, Motegi, Milwaukee, Michigan and Fontana. Of the five, they have been to only two, Homestead and Motegi.

JPM's record at Homestead:1999-started 8th, finished 9th
2000-started 2nd, finished 23rd
Danica's record there:2005-started 9th, finished 15th
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------JPM's record at Motegi:1999-started 15th, finished 13th
2000-started pole, finished 7th
Danica's record there:2005-started 2nd, finished 4th

T-K, the results are mixed on your point. Granted, Juan Pablo won the ChampCar title in 1999, but the schedule then had more road/street circuits than ovals and his oval record was mixed. Danica's schedule this year has just three(of 17 total races) and neither of them raced at any of the three(she finished 12th at St. Pete, one of the three). The only thing they seem to have had in common are some of the drivers they're facing, racers like Helio Castroneves, Tony Kanaan, Dario Franchitti, Alex Barron, Bryan Herta and Patrick Carpentier. I hope this was worth a shot, though. Let me know what you think, okay.

To my posting of 20 June add Indianapolis to the list. JPM won there in 2000, albeit w/a weaker field than in 2005, when Danica finished 4th w/a far-deeper field to contend with. Again, T-K, the results are mixed as to the point you made in your posting.

Since both JayVee and Julian have asked me for updates concerning Danica Patrick's rookie IndyCar season, here's a little info on the next race on the schedule.

Round 7 of the 2005 IRL IndyCar Series is the SunTrust Indy Challenge at the Richmond International Raceway, a 3/4-mile low-banked oval commonly referred to as a "bullring"-type circuit due to the short distance on the track. Laps at the track take less than 16 secs. on avg. w/speeds around 160-165 mph. Expect lots(and I mean)lots of close-quarter racing, not necessarily the "pack"-type racing that we saw at Texas but close, near side-by-side racing where the least mistake will see you right into the wall, as had happened to drivers since 2001.

Qualifying for the event is on friday, June 24, and will be webcast on indycar.com/multimedia/radio(just find the link next to it and click on it; the race itself is Sat., June 25 at 7:30 EDT(2130 UTC) on ESPN-2 and XM Satellite Radio(Ch. 152). I don't know if y'all can pick up XM Sat. Radio(its' a pay-radio service here in the States') but ESPN generally allows simulcasts on most intl. sports networks, either same-day tape or live.

I'll try and keep everyone abrest of how Danica does there at Richmond; its' not the easiest track for a rookie driver to do well at, but none of the veteran drivers who race there have won more than once since 2001, so we'll just have to see what happens.

mlittle wrote:Since both JayVee and Julian have asked me for updates concerning Danica Patrick's rookie IndyCar season, here's a little info on the next race on the schedule.

Round 7 of the 2005 IRL IndyCar Series is the SunTrust Indy Challenge at the Richmond International Raceway, a 3/4-mile low-banked oval commonly referred to as a "bullring"-type circuit due to the short distance on the track. Laps at the track take less than 16 secs. on avg. w/speeds around 160-165 mph. Expect lots(and I mean)lots of close-quarter racing, not necessarily the "pack"-type racing that we saw at Texas but close, near side-by-side racing where the least mistake will see you right into the wall, as had happened to drivers since 2001.

Qualifying for the event is on friday, June 24, and will be webcast on indycar.com/multimedia/radio(just find the link next to it and click on it; the race itself is Sat., June 25 at 7:30 EDT(2130 UTC) on ESPN-2 and XM Satellite Radio(Ch. 152). I don't know if y'all can pick up XM Sat. Radio(its' a pay-radio service here in the States') but ESPN generally allows simulcasts on most intl. sports networks, either same-day tape or live.

I'll try and keep everyone abrest of how Danica does there at Richmond; its' not the easiest track for a rookie driver to do well at, but none of the veteran drivers who race there have won more than once since 2001, so we'll just have to see what happens.

Thanks M, I get a scant tv item about a week after the event

mlittle wrote:Quoting from <T-K>'s posting:(paraphrasing)
"If you compare JPM's previous records in the U.S.(before F1), and Danica's, JPM wins hands down..."

If I got your quotation, T-K, wrong in paraphrase, I apologize now. But as to your point...
I just checked the ChampCar and IRL records archives(it's 8 PM Eastern Daylight here in NC, 20 June, or around 0:00 GMT, 21 June) and it's a mixed record. Of the races that Juan Pablo Montoya and Danica Patrick either were or will be in, there are only five tracks that they have in common--Homestead, Motegi, Milwaukee, Michigan and Fontana. Of the five, they have been to only two, Homestead and Motegi.

JPM's record at Homestead:1999-started 8th, finished 9th
2000-started 2nd, finished 23rd
Danica's record there:2005-started 9th, finished 15th
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------JPM's record at Motegi:1999-started 15th, finished 13th
2000-started pole, finished 7th
Danica's record there:2005-started 2nd, finished 4th

T-K, the results are mixed on your point. Granted, Juan Pablo won the ChampCar title in 1999, but the schedule then had more road/street circuits than ovals and his oval record was mixed. Danica's schedule this year has just three(of 17 total races) and neither of them raced at any of the three(she finished 12th at St. Pete, one of the three). The only thing they seem to have had in common are some of the drivers they're facing, racers like Helio Castroneves, Tony Kanaan, Dario Franchitti, Alex Barron, Bryan Herta and Patrick Carpentier. I hope this was worth a shot, though. Let me know what you think, okay.

If I remember those years at CART fine, it was clear that JPM were lot better in road/street circuits than at ovals... maybe for Danica and meny other drivers the situations is the opposite...
F1 have less in common with ovals then with road/street circuits after all...so the more important stats here are those of the later...

Would be nice to have that babe in the F1!!!! =)

On the contrary, sgd...Montoya's 2 years in CART were a study in contrasts for two reasons:1-Of the ten wins he collected, six of them(Milwaukee, Michigan, Gateway, Nazareth, Rio de Janiero, and Chicago Motor Speedway) were ovals; his other wins were at Long Beach, Cleveland, Mid-Ohio and Laguna Seca, and 2-Most of JPM's contemporaries(Castroneves and Co.) had pretty impressive records of their own vs. Montoya's during that time.

BTW, sgd, I also remember those years pretty well, Montoya's team, Target/Ganassi, was the dominant team from 96'(when Vasser won the CART title) through 97-98'(when Alex Zanardi could do wrong then as well), and then 99', when JPM continued their dominance. It was only when the other dominant CART team, Marlboro/Team Penske, struck back in 2000 & 2001, when Gil De Ferran won back to back titles, that TGR was brought back to reality. Isn't it kind of ironic, sgd, that Patrick, who's got a pretty good team behind her in Rahal-Letterman Racing, is holding her own against Penske, Ganassi and Andretti-Green Racing in the IndyCar series, while Montoya, who drives in F1 for McLaren Mercedes,seems to be struggling against teams like Renault, BMW-Williams, BAR-Honda, and yes, even Scudaria Ferrari, despite their struggles this year.

mlittle wrote:On the contrary, sgd...Montoya's 2 years in CART were a study in contrasts for two reasons:1-Of the ten wins he collected, six of them(Milwaukee, Michigan, Gateway, Nazareth, Rio de Janiero, and Chicago Motor Speedway) were ovals; his other wins were at Long Beach, Cleveland, Mid-Ohio and Laguna Seca, and 2-Most of JPM's contemporaries(Castroneves and Co.) had pretty impressive records of their own vs. Montoya's during that time.

BTW, sgd, I also remember those years pretty well, Montoya's team, Target/Ganassi, was the dominant team from 96'(when Vasser won the CART title) through 97-98'(when Alex Zanardi could do wrong then as well), and then 99', when JPM continued their dominance. It was only when the other dominant CART team, Marlboro/Team Penske, struck back in 2000 & 2001, when Gil De Ferran won back to back titles, that TGR was brought back to reality. Isn't it kind of ironic, sgd, that Patrick, who's got a pretty good team behind her in Rahal-Letterman Racing, is holding her own against Penske, Ganassi and Andretti-Green Racing in the IndyCar series, while Montoya, who drives in F1 for McLaren Mercedes,seems to be struggling against teams like Renault, BMW-Williams, BAR-Honda, and yes, even Scudaria Ferrari, despite their struggles this year.

I do not think all is well within the team, where monty is concerned

mlittle wrote:On the contrary, sgd...Montoya's 2 years in CART were a study in contrasts for two reasons:1-Of the ten wins he collected, six of them(Milwaukee, Michigan, Gateway, Nazareth, Rio de Janiero, and Chicago Motor Speedway) were ovals; his other wins were at Long Beach, Cleveland, Mid-Ohio and Laguna Seca, and 2-Most of JPM's contemporaries(Castroneves and Co.) had pretty impressive records of their own vs. Montoya's during that time.

BTW, sgd, I also remember those years pretty well, Montoya's team, Target/Ganassi, was the dominant team from 96'(when Vasser won the CART title) through 97-98'(when Alex Zanardi could do wrong then as well), and then 99', when JPM continued their dominance. It was only when the other dominant CART team, Marlboro/Team Penske, struck back in 2000 & 2001, when Gil De Ferran won back to back titles, that TGR was brought back to reality. Isn't it kind of ironic, sgd, that Patrick, who's got a pretty good team behind her in Rahal-Letterman Racing, is holding her own against Penske, Ganassi and Andretti-Green Racing in the IndyCar series, while Montoya, who drives in F1 for McLaren Mercedes,seems to be struggling against teams like Renault, BMW-Williams, BAR-Honda, and yes, even Scudaria Ferrari, despite their struggles this year.

I see... maybe it was just my impression that JPM did better at road/street circuits... about Montoya struggling... yes... this first season in Mclaren has not been an easy one for him, but i expect a much better 2nd half!!!!
seems like you support Danica... and seems like many others do too... It'd be very nice to have her in F1!! =)

I may be wrong, julian, but the key difference between Juan Pablo and Danica could be their teammates and how they interact w/one another. It seems that JPM, since going to F1 in 2001 w/BMW-Williams, believes that he is destined to be the #1 driver on the team, irrespective of what anyone may think. Since going to McLaren-Mercedes this year, he's been hampered, I think, by having to fight for race wins w/an equally well-prepared driver in Kimi Raikkonen, and its' hurt him this year.
On the other hand, Patrick's been fortunate enough to have two good and supportive teammates at Rahal-Letterman, in 2004 Indy 500 winner Buddy Rice and veteran racer Vitor Meira, who I'm sure have given her plenty of advice on how to handle the rigors of each venue on the IRL schedule, as well as anything else that comes up during the year. Plus, as Danica's probably said hundreds of times so far this year, she's still a rookie, she's still learning the ropes, so to speak. She just seems to be more grounded in her outlook on the season than JPM has been this year, and that can have a major effect on one's season results.