News On F1 Forums - Talk Formula 1

Maksutov wrote:

Julian Mayo wrote:

JayVee wrote:Why do I have a bad feeling about this ?

It seems that Mosley will stick to his guns and destroy Formula 1. The good thing about all this that we could have a new series without Mosley and without Bernie

AAaaahhhhhh, .............at last someone else can see a positive about all this,

While I do NOT want to see a split, I, and obviously so many others, have had an absolute gutful of Moseleys' machinations, of half arsed regulations which constantly and consistantly have to be hastily amended etc, etc.
Any positves Mad Bloody Max has achieved in F1 have been, imho, far out- weighed by his personal agendas.
My personal agenda at the moment it to outlive the bastard so I can dance on his bloody grave.

I agree. I've been following F1 for a very long time, almost 20 years now, and I can tell you that Max Mosley needs to go. He has completely lost it, has been losing it for the past 10 years and he got worse each year.

His constant changing of rules is the sole reason why the costs went up in the first place. He messed everything up and now he wants to cover his own crap. I can see the benefits of cost reduction and so do the FOTA teams, but the issue here is not cost it is the governance of Formula 1, stability of rules, professionalism of the sport which Max Mosley has completely destroyed. This is not war between FOTA and FIA, this is WAR between FOTA and one person - "Max Mosley" who still holds a grudge about his Nazi slave sex tape. This man is too old and stupid.

EDITED

Julian Mayo wrote:

Maksutov wrote:

Julian Mayo wrote:
AAaaahhhhhh, .............at last someone else can see a positive about all this,

While I do NOT want to see a split, I, and obviously so many others, have had an absolute gutful of Moseleys' machinations, of half arsed regulations which constantly and consistantly have to be hastily amended etc, etc.
Any positves Mad Bloody Max has achieved in F1 have been, imho, far out- weighed by his personal agendas.
My personal agenda at the moment it to outlive the bastard so I can dance on his bloody grave.

I agree. I've been following F1 for a very long time, almost 20 years now, and I can tell you that Max Mosley needs to go. He has completely lost it, has been losing it for the past 10 years and he got worse each year.

His constant changing of rules is the sole reason why the costs went up in the first place. He messed everything up and now he wants to cover his own crap. I can see the benefits of cost reduction and so do the FOTA teams, but the issue here is not cost it is the governance of Formula 1, stability of rules, professionalism of the sport which Max Mosley has completely destroyed. This is not war between FOTA and FIA, this is WAR between FOTA and one person - "Max Mosley" who still holds a grudge about his Nazi slave sex tape. This man is too old and stupid.

EDITED

Welcome to the forums, Maksutov!


As to the topic at hand, what we're seeing btwn. Sado-Max and FOTA is a game of chicken, which can only hurt the sport as a whole. FOTA(principally Ferrari) want to be able to spend whatever they want without regard, while the FIA is trying to do whatever it can to control those costs. I said it in an earlier post, but it bears repeating,

One of the problems I've noticed in motorsports for years is the continued increase in the costs to the teams in competing, not just in Formula 1 but in many major series across the board.

Look at some of the series that have disappeared from the motorsports map, not just in North America but internationally............IMSA's GT Championship[which ultimately split into Grand-Am and the ALMS], WSC[World Sportscar Championship], Can-Am, Trans-Am[prior to 2006], DTM[German Touring Cars pre-1996], etc. Eventually one of three things are going to happen.......either FOTA wins and the sport's costs continue to spiral ever-upward, the FIA prevails and puts some form of sanity into the sport(granted, FIA and sanity can be mutally exclusive, but that's for another thread....... ) or we see a CART/IRL-style split of Formula 1(which could make the AOW split look peaceful....... ).

Now, to be fair, Julian's right when he says that,

the FIA charter was to police the rules, not make them

but then I think, "Okay, who makes the rules then, the FIA or FOTA?" FWIW, I don't trust the teams to make the rules themselves; if their manner of running the sport is anything similar to what I've seen in NA motorsports, I definitely don't care to see that occur. OTOH, the FIA has had a bad habit of screwing up the sport over the years irrespective of what any of the teams can do. Hopefully, they'll find common ground and end this crisis, but it's going to take both sides giving up something for it to happen.

My thoughts are, that the teams would be policed by the FIA, as they have said, and having stated that they are as committed to the budget cap as Max, only over a longer time frame, I do not see why a compromise is so f*#gging hard.
Except for Max.
Who, imho panicked when Honda pulled the plug, and that is what has caused the whole farcical bucket of bollocks.
So, again imho, one man, and I use the term "man' very loosely, will happily jeopardise F1 for the sake of his very tatty pride.

I can see your point of view mlittle however the teams including Ferrari do not want to spend whatever they want without regard. That may have been their position in the past but since 2008 FOTA have been actively working on solutions to cut costs. To me, the standoff is simply how to implement cost cutting and not to cut costs or not to.

My latest article on the blog looks at this in more detail:
From the most successful meeting to a sport facing a split, what went wrong in 6 months ?

With just 3 days remaining until the FIA publishes the 2010 Formula 1 entry list, it is reported that Max Mosley is urging the FOTA teams to lodge unconditional entries and accept the 2010 rules then change them as required as long as all the teams agree. FOTA is reported to be preparing a response today.

More: FOTA not commenting on Mosley letter

Related:
F1 teams expecting Mosley letter on Friday
FOTA guarantees unity with $50m pledge
FOTA looks to MotoGP for 2010 breakaway

Ed wrote:With just 3 days remaining until the FIA publishes the 2010 Formula 1 entry list, it is reported that Max Mosley is urging the FOTA teams to lodge unconditional entries and accept the 2010 rules then change them as required as long as all the teams agree. FOTA is reported to be preparing a response today.

More: FOTA not commenting on Mosley letter

Related:
F1 teams expecting Mosley letter on Friday
FOTA guarantees unity with $50m pledge
FOTA looks to MotoGP for 2010 breakaway

Would you trust him?

It is June.
Mad Max said that he would make a decision about standing for re-election in June.
With mainstream media starting to take significant interest in the F1 Brouhaha, perhaps MM might like to take the honourable way out, and just fade quietly into the obscurity of a private dungeon, and leave F1 to those who care about it.
Ahhhh.....perchance to dream
Interesting that the teams have unilaterally agreed to bin Mad Max's Kers dream, citing the massive expenditure already incurred, and which would be ongoing to make it workable.
IMHO, no team wants to throw one single euro more than it has to at F1.
Why would they in these times?
Mad Max is a prawn past it's use by date. Would someone please whistle up a cat.

Julian Mayo wrote:

Ed wrote:With just 3 days remaining until the FIA publishes the 2010 Formula 1 entry list, it is reported that Max Mosley is urging the FOTA teams to lodge unconditional entries and accept the 2010 rules then change them as required as long as all the teams agree. FOTA is reported to be preparing a response today.

More: FOTA not commenting on Mosley letter

Related:
F1 teams expecting Mosley letter on Friday
FOTA guarantees unity with $50m pledge
FOTA looks to MotoGP for 2010 breakaway

Would you trust him?

It would be a bit naive to just accept the rules then wish for a solution. Perhaps even stupid!

FOTA has responded to Max Mosley's letter and an FIA spokesperson has said "The FIA has received a letter and various attachments from FOTA, the contents of which are not entirely negative, and we are currently examining the details"

No further details have emerged yet but we will update this thread once additional information becomes available.

It remains to be seen whether the optimisim surrounding this news is real or just desperate hope to get this issue resolved.

With just 2 days until the FIA publishes the 2010 F1 Championship entry list, it is rumoured that the FIA may publish only 5 teams leaving time for the FOTA teams to join. That doesn't sound credible though.

McLaren's Martin Whitmarsh beleives a compromise is possible if personal considerations are put aside. He said:

Unfortunately the teams, the FIA and the rights holders do not always share opinions, but it would be wrong to tear up everything built up in the past 60 years
"This is a sport with a lot of very strong personalities involved. Perhaps after so long some parties think they don't need the other any more. But if we leave personal considerations aside, a compromise is possible."

More:
FOTA response not all 'negative' - FIA

I think Bernie needs to be very, very careful.
He may have just pushed too many very powerful people just a tad too hard, once too often.
Unfortunately for us, Max loves the feeling of power he gets from these situations, but this time he and Bernie just might end up holding the (hollow) golden egg, while FOTA happily walk off with the Goose.

Just a thought...................wonder if Whitmarsh thinks the McLaren will perform better with the '08 spec cosworth in the back.....................

Following a meeting by FOTA on the 10th of June, Ferrari's Team Principal Stefano Domenicali made it clear that Ferrari's position has not changed and that they will not accept an 'automatic' entry in the championship by the FIA.

Speaking to the official Ferrari website, Domenicali said:

Ferrari’s position has not changed. Back on 29 May, we put in a conditional entry with the other teams that make up FOTA. Along with this entry, we put forward to the FIA a package of proposals which included among other elements, a significant reduction in costs. As always, we will do all we can to find a solution that is acceptable to all parties. If this is not possible, then the FIA will not be able to include Ferrari in the list of teams entered for the 2010 FIA Formula 1 World Championship.

Julian Mayo wrote:Just a thought...................wonder if Whitmarsh thinks the McLaren will perform better with the '08 spec cosworth in the back.....................

A McLaren-Cosworth..........consdering that their 2009 car drives like a proverbial pig at the moment, that might help...........or they could just go 11/10th's each race and see what happens............

mlittle wrote:

Julian Mayo wrote:Just a thought...................wonder if Whitmarsh thinks the McLaren will perform better with the '08 spec cosworth in the back.....................

A McLaren-Cosworth..........consdering that their 2009 car drives like a proverbial pig at the moment, that might help...........or they could just go 11/10th's each race and see what happens............

"POP"