BAR Penalty - Your Thoughts

[K-D]

K-D,

You accused me of going on and on about Ferrari cheating in testing based solely on my dislike for them. - No I did not.

I pointed out to you that my stated opinion on that matter wasn't the case and I quoted my replies on that topic. I also asked you to point out where I said such remarks but you chose to ignore that. - No I did not.

I enjoy discussing the other point of view with you but to bluntly accuse me of saying something I didn't and ignoring that despite telling you that wasn't and isn't my view on that subject is rude and unacceptable and doesn't make it enjoyable any more - Well then try commenting on facts instead of emotions, will in the long run be more interesting.

[JayVee]

K-D, you are denying you said this:

Of course I bring it up, since that is exactly why you reek of doublestandards. The first page in this thread is crying and bemoaning over a team caught red handed breaking the rules. But a team running according to the rules you can go on and on about "cheating" based solely on your dislike for them. That makes Ferrari relevant in this thread, as an example of your doublestandards.

You typed the above in reply to my post

Wake up and get real

[K-D]

K-D, you are denying you said this:

Of course I bring it up, since that is exactly why you reek of doublestandards. The first page in this thread is crying and bemoaning over a team caught red handed breaking the rules. But a team running according to the rules you can go on and on about "cheating" based solely on your dislike for them. That makes Ferrari relevant in this thread, as an example of your doublestandards.

You typed the above in reply to my post

Wake up and get real

I am awake and real, and I did not state that JayVee go on and on. I replied to all as being "you" on the first page of this thread, compared to +7 pages worth of hot air in the Ferrari chaeting thread, and numerous individual posts in numerous threads covering all kinds of subject matter.

Since you replied to me, I replied to you = JayVee, but they "You" is all of you.

Clarifyingly yours,
K-D

[JayVee]

I am awake and real, and I did not state that JayVee go on and on. I replied to all as being "you" on the first page of this thread, compared to +7 pages worth of hot air in the Ferrari chaeting thread, and numerous individual posts in numerous threads covering all kinds of subject matter.

Since you replied to me, I replied to you = JayVee, but they "You" is all of you.

Clarifyingly yours,
K-D

This is what I call a half-hearted attempt at clearing the air. Oh I used you collectively. Well that isn't on K-D because you were replying to me and in an earlier post in the same thread you said this :

You and many others keep howling for unfair advantages of Ferrari testing, regardless of the testing agreement not being a rule anywhere. But when a team "on your side" break the rules, you find that in order.

That is a doublestandard.

That was again in reply to a post of mine. You clearly say you and many others keep howling.

K-D I didn't howl.

Try again

[K-D]

....

K-D I didn't howl.

Try again

Drat.

I will have to read +940 posts now. Once completed I will either stand exonorated, or start a Jayvee appreciation thread.

Will take me most of weekend to read all your posts. Be warned I will use all posisble fodder as ammo.

[JayVee]

Go ahead make my day or weekend and lets see who has their brain clouded

My position on Ferrari testing was and remains very clear. Personally I don't like it and don't think it is fair (to all sides) but since there isn't a rule on that then they aren't cheating.

Enjoy reading the posts

[F1greyhound]

Can anyone explain why BAR dont appeal to the FIA decision?

They were not proven cheating, only thing was that IF the car was fully emptied it would have been about 10kg light.

One question is, what about the fuel tanks of the other teams?

As stated before, a time penalty for Imola plus fine would have been ok.

Best thing about all this is Mosleys opinion of the verdict being far too lenient.....Max is doing his traditionally great job for the image of F1.


CHEERS!

[K-D]

Can anyone explain why BAR dont appeal to the FIA decision?

They were not proven cheating, only thing was that IF the car was fully emptied it would have been about 10kg light. - Only 10 kgs light, is still breaking the rules, and as such the penalty needs to be paid. had they been disqualified from the San marino result already at San Marion, the matter would not have been dragged to the appeals court, and all they would have lost were the 3rd place finish at Imola. The FIA and it's various forms of appeals courts and tribunals are known to increase the penalties if the offenders does not admit guilt initially. This is what happend here, and why I continue to think that siomeone at BAR Honda will be made a sacrificeable lamb.

They broke the rules.

Were caught.

Would not admit.

Went to appeals court.

Were fond guilty.

If they went further they stand a very real chance of losing once more, which in no way shape or form will go down well at the Honda board.

One question is, what about the fuel tanks of the other teams? - The problem is not the thank at BAR Honda, the problem is that the car when weighed were to light. The tank is built according to the rules and regulations.

As stated before, a time penalty for Imola plus fine would have been ok.

Best thing about all this is Mosleys opinion of the verdict being far too lenient.....Max is doing his traditionally great job for the image of F1. - This is your views on this, mine are basically what I wrote in the beginning, the team should have caved in immediately when they were called by the FIA at Imola, once they fail to do so, the hamme will come down.



CHEERS!

[Ed]

Can anyone explain why BAR dont appeal to the FIA decision?

They were not proven cheating, only thing was that IF the car was fully emptied it would have been about 10kg light.

One question is, what about the fuel tanks of the other teams?

As stated before, a time penalty for Imola plus fine would have been ok.

Best thing about all this is Mosleys opinion of the verdict being far too lenient.....Max is doing his traditionally great job for the image of F1.


CHEERS!

It isn't that simple F1greyhound.

Inside the FIA there is no further appeal process beyond the International Court of Appeal so they have to go to a civil court and sue the FIA for being unfair. It seems that BAR didn't have enough time to go to a court and get an injunction to race in Spain and with 1 race missed going through the trouble for Monaco alone and taking whatever risks this process may carry, it seems BAR decided to take the penalty.
You can read the full BAR statement on why they won't take further action here

K-D, it is true that most of the times when a team appeals a Stewards decision the penalty is harsher however in this case BAR weren't penalised and were cleared by the Stewards and the Technical Delegate. It was the FIA appealing the Stewards decision and not BAR.

[Ed]

BAR have decided to publish the entire submission to the FIA International Court of Appeal. This - according to BAR- in an effort to provide the greatest possible visibility to the outside world of its case.
You can download the pdf file here (it is 1.7 MB and 103 pages)

[sgd]

wow!
that's transparency!! =)
really, good sign from BAR...

[sgd]

I wonder who is next ?

McLaren ? Williams ? Renault ?

or Toyota? Minardi?

FIA president Max Mosley issued a strong warning to all of the teams (except to ferrari): “We are now considering whether to select one car at random of the points scorers at every race, and stripping it to the last nut and bolt. That will give a seven to one chance that if you are cheating and finish in the points, you will get caught.”

...

[JayVee]

The BAR report clearly shows the vague and conflicting rules in the regs.

They explain how they interpreted the rules and even if they seem to have exploited a loophole it clearly is the reponsibility of the FIA to close the loophole by clarifying the rules.

BAR don't deserve a penalty and this certainly won't help any compromise between GPWC and FIA/FOM

The war has started

[Julian Mayo]

The BAR report clearly shows the vague and conflicting rules in the regs.

They explain how they interpreted the rules and even if they seem to have exploited a loophole it clearly is the reponsibility of the FIA to close the loophole by clarifying the rules.

BAR don't deserve a penalty and this certainly won't help any compromise between GPWC and FIA/FOM

The war has started

JV (he said ever ever so gently, and sadly) the war started before the season did. The GPWC members forecast exactly what has happened with BAR. Which is another reason why they were not cheating

[Ed]

The FIA have made their appeal dossier available. You can download it from here. It is over 900 kb and 17 pages