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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:28 pm
by rah
JayVee wrote: Benetton Ford - 1994 :wink:

Now let me ask you this, when was the last time Williams won the Championship ?
And
Do you think a 1 year partnership can acheive anything ?

This is only an interim solution until they get the Toyota engine in 2007.

BMW will have a better season than Williams next year. And I'll take bets :D
I don't really do well at trivia, thats why you never see me playing. I give up, when was the last time Williams won?

Maybe, you never know. I don't think anyone is saying that Williams will win any of the championships but they could do well.

So what are the odds for the bets? It might be worth a flutter. Just remember that BMW will have no where near the chassis or aero info that Williams have. BMW only have what they have learnt through Williams and what they got from Sauber. It took a long time before Toyota got some speed.

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:29 pm
by JayVee
julian mayo wrote:
Are you sure none ran over 20,000 revs ? And given the nature of a V8, is it essential to run over 20,000 revs ( which the cosworth is currently doing on the dyno)
No I am not sure but I never heard of engines revving as high as the F1's so I would assume they haven't.

Tell me when will Williams run the Cosworth V8 in their car ?
When did BMW, Ferrari, Honda, Toyota and Renault run theirs ?
That is a huge advantage

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:35 pm
by rah
JayVee wrote:
julian mayo wrote:
Are you sure none ran over 20,000 revs ? And given the nature of a V8, is it essential to run over 20,000 revs ( which the cosworth is currently doing on the dyno)
No I am not sure but I never heard of engines revving as high as the F1's so I would assume they haven't.

Tell me when will Williams run the Cosworth V8 in their car ?
When did BMW, Ferrari, Honda, Toyota and Renault run theirs ?
That is a huge advantage
Motor bike engines rev that high I think, so maybe Toyota might have an advantage!

I don't know, have BMW run their V8' in their cars?
Ferrari, Toyota and BAR have both tested their motors I think.
I don't know if Renault have yet. But it took the a long time to figure out the V10 so who knows how long it will take them with a V8.

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:41 pm
by JayVee
rah wrote: I don't really do well at trivia, thats why you never see me playing. I give up, when was the last time Williams won?

Maybe, you never know. I don't think anyone is saying that Williams will win any of the championships but they could do well.

So what are the odds for the bets? It might be worth a flutter. Just remember that BMW will have no where near the chassis or aero info that Williams have. BMW only have what they have learnt through Williams and what they got from Sauber. It took a long time before Toyota got some speed.
Williams 97 with Villeneuve :D

I agree they could do well :wink:

Don't know the odds, I am just willing to bet that BMW will finish ahead of Williams next year. But be reasonable I am not rich :shock: :shock:

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:48 pm
by JayVee
rah wrote: Motor bike engines rev that high I think, so maybe Toyota might have an advantage!

I don't know, have BMW run their V8' in their cars?
Ferrari, Toyota and BAR have both tested their motors I think.
I don't know if Renault have yet. But it took the a long time to figure out the V10 so who knows how long it will take them with a V8.
Williams ran the BMW V8 a few weeks ago :shock: :shock: :shock:

Don't know when and if Renault and Mercedes will run their engines. What I do know is that Renault dumped their 110 degree engine in 2003 and it took them just 2 years for their current engine to be one of the most powerful.
Of all the current engine manufacturers I would give Renault and Honda the best chance next year.

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:51 pm
by JayVee
Just for the sake of accuracy, in 94 Schumacher won the drivers title in a Benetton Ford however the last time a team won the constructors title with Cosworth was Williams in 1981.

Hey that may be a good sign julian :wink:

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:52 pm
by Julian Mayo
JayVee wrote:
julian mayo wrote:
Are you sure none ran over 20,000 revs ? And given the nature of a V8, is it essential to run over 20,000 revs ( which the cosworth is currently doing on the dyno)
No I am not sure but I never heard of engines revving as high as the F1's so I would assume they haven't.

Tell me when will Williams run the Cosworth V8 in their car ?
When did BMW, Ferrari, Honda, Toyota and Renault run theirs ?
That is a huge advantage

The willworth V8 is exceeding 20,000revs on the dyno now, according to their latest press release. This is one of the major reasons Williams chose Cosworth. The smaller block, and the new regs imho will see almost standardised chassis' on 06, the extra space will be a boon for taller drivers,ie Alonso will have to wear lead in his socks.

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:54 pm
by Julian Mayo
JayVee wrote:
rah wrote: I don't really do well at trivia, thats why you never see me playing. I give up, when was the last time Williams won?

Maybe, you never know. I don't think anyone is saying that Williams will win any of the championships but they could do well.

So what are the odds for the bets? It might be worth a flutter. Just remember that BMW will have no where near the chassis or aero info that Williams have. BMW only have what they have learnt through Williams and what they got from Sauber. It took a long time before Toyota got some speed.
Williams 97 with Villeneuve :D

I agree they could do well :wink:

Don't know the odds, I am just willing to bet that BMW will finish ahead of Williams next year. But be reasonable I am not rich :shock: :shock:

Name your bet, it doesn't have to be money :D 8)

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:56 pm
by Julian Mayo
JayVee wrote:Just for the sake of accuracy, in 94 Schumacher won the drivers title in a Benetton Ford however the last time a team won the constructors title with Cosworth was Williams in 1981.

Hey that may be a good sign julian :wink:

Sigh, if you read my posts you would have seen me say that yonks ago :twisted: ,... and, NO, I am not going to find the post, that is for more "trivial" minds.

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 7:13 pm
by sgd
JayVee wrote:
rah wrote: Cosworth may or may not have an advantage over others, but I don't think we should write them off for the season already.
Writing them off for what ? For the championship, yes I would.
Me too. i see them fighting with BMW for 6th place (behind Honda, Toyota, Ferrari, Renault n McLaren)

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:47 am
by rah
sgd wrote:
JayVee wrote:
rah wrote: Cosworth may or may not have an advantage over others, but I don't think we should write them off for the season already.
Writing them off for what ? For the championship, yes I would.
Me too. i see them fighting with BMW for 6th place (behind Honda, Toyota, Ferrari, Renault n McLaren)
After the years of development that McLaren have put in they still cant produce a reliable V10, what makes you think they will be ablt to make a good V8. Maybe 06 will not be a good year for them.

Mind you, I am sure Monty would like the extra cabin space. More room to put the mackas drive through.

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:07 am
by Byron Forbes
And there I was thinking Mercedes made engines for McLaren all these years.

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:02 am
by Julian Mayo
rah wrote:
sgd wrote:
JayVee wrote:
Writing them off for what ? For the championship, yes I would.
Me too. i see them fighting with BMW for 6th place (behind Honda, Toyota, Ferrari, Renault n McLaren)
After the years of development that McLaren have put in they still cant produce a reliable V10, what makes you think they will be ablt to make a good V8. Maybe 06 will not be a good year for them.

Mind you, I am sure Monty would like the extra cabin space. More room to put the mackas drive through.
And Button can take his ego :lol:
How do you think Mark will go once he can fit in a car without burning his backside ? :D

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:02 am
by Julian Mayo
JayVee wrote:Lets see, when was the last time a Cosworth won a race ?

With Jordan in 03 and with Stewart in 99 but both were flukes!

You have to go back to 94 for their last competitive win!!

So why would they all of a sudden start winning ? Particulary with a team like Williams who since the departure of Adrian Newey have yet to put a good car together. Maybe it is no longer true but at one stage the BMW engine was the best engine on the grid but they still couldn't win.

2006 will be another one of those years for Williams, an interim year until they get a works engine. Just like in 98 when they went to Mecachrome/Supertec

But you can be hopeful, just like you were before the start of the season on Webber :wink: :alright:
JAYVEE, consider this before damning them with a disdainful toss of those delightful curls.
Until the French GP of 2004 Cosworth led Ferrari in GP victories with 176 victories. Cosworth produces the most reliable engines in Nth American racing. The current V10 engine in F1 is not the slowest.
Cosworth has more V8 experience than any other race engine manufacturer.
Cosworth has already surmounted the inherent vibration problems the other V8 manufacturers are grappling with ie.,
The new V8 is routinely running well in excess of 20,000 rpm on the dyno.
Williams has 113 gp wins to its credit and 16 world championships.
Williams finally has its two ONSITE Wind Tunnels calibrated, and up and running properly, with the result that most aerodynamicysts in the F1 industry expect the next FW chassis to be one of the most efficient out there.
And don't forget the "nature of the beast". Sir Frank would have been a trifle irked by BMW's decision, and the poor results (for whatever reason) this year. Historically, when SF is piqued and he perceives that his team's reputation is suffering heads roll and resulte ensue.
IMHO Williams have been putting a lot of resources into next years car, having "written off" this year, while Ferrari have been throwing most of their efforts at this year.BAR have been desperate for points,any points.
Mercedes have been unreliable. Renault seem to be capable of producing only one race winning car...do they have the technical depth to produce a race winning new car first up? Toyota have enormous resources and, again imho, could be potentially the biggest threat to the title if the drivers are up to it ( as long as he races I will have a question about Ralf's talent)
Similarly I have doubts about BMW having the expertise to be ultra competitive within the first season, technically, and a lot will depend on the driver line-up (as, of course, it will for ALL the teams)
Another aspect to consider is the different driving technique required to extract the utmost from the specific characteristics of the V8. It will suit some drivers immediately, others are going to have greater difficulty adapting.
Next season is going to be a tad interesting.

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:24 pm
by rah
Byron Forbes wrote:And there I was thinking Mercedes made engines for McLaren all these years.
Yeah yeah, you know what I mean.