Your predictions for the 2008 F1 Season - Drivers

[Redhead]

In all the excitement of last year no-one sees fit to give Ferrari much credit for keeping it together sans Brawn and Schumi and with Todt on the outer. Its all Italiano and they deserve a lot more credit than they have gotten, but given last years script its probably understandable.

The great mystery of last year was how McLaren adapted so well to the Bridgestones and the world champions didn’t.

The great mystery of ths year is how THE BLOODY PECKING ORDER DOES NOT SEEM TO HAVE CHANGED AT ALL. AAAAARRRRGRGGHHHHH!@&^%$(@^%

F1 technology is so strangled it appears major movements are not possible, but I will go to my grave wondering how Honda and Toyota can spend so much and completely fail to make an impression.

Anyway, Kimi is my pick for the year, I think Lewis is going to have a rough year this year, it took until the last race of the year for him to show us he was actually human, now we know it I think he is going to show it a bit more often.

Major opportunities for surprise this year
- Kovi on Lewis, can he trouble him (possible)
- Piquet on Sweet FA, can lightning strike twice (probably not, but it would be fun)
- Sebastian Bourdais, how will his obvious talent adapt to the circus

Minor opportunities for surprise
- Felipe has the reliability excuse last year, if it doesn’t happen this year can he compete with Kimi ( I doubt it )
- If Webbo gets a reliable car can he make waves (time is running out)
- lack of traction control shakes things up (doubt it)

I would like BMW to surprise me but it doesn’t look like it is going to happen.’

I think Sweet FA is going to be highly entertaining as he does things with a poorly performing car that mere mortals couldnt.

Even though I am a dyed in the wool red fan I much prefer it when the applecart is upset, last year it was upset everywhere except on the track, where it counts, and unfortunately I cant see it happening in the track this year either.

I’ll be glued to it all the same though ……………………

cheers,
Cam

[jido]

Voted Heikki, for fun... I think the other Finn has more chances to win

[JayVee]

Well I tried to vote and some how wasn't counted. Not that it matters much.

To try to pick the numbers in the WDC after last season!!

I believe Kimi will win the WDC again this year; he has a team and a car to
make it happen.

I believe he will be pressed by Lewis, who also has a car and a team of the
quality required.

I don't think this will be a happy year for Fernando, but what points he manages will be strictly owing to his talents as a driver.

Let's see: there are 18 races so the top of the podium yields 180 points

last year Kimi got 5 wins; this year he'll get 7, so 70 plus three or four
seconds for 24-36 and a few thirds (Kimi tends to podium or DNF)... I'm
going to guess 124 points...

So.
Raikkonen: 124
Hamilton: 102
Massa: 98
Alonso: 76

and that's enough tempting of the racing gods! (It will be fun to look back on this!)

Cheers!

Jim Watt

Hello Jim,

Just a reminder that Alonso The Cute won both 2005 and 2006 in an inferior car

And that was a Renault I know you can't stand anything French

But let me also tell you this, Alonso will win races this year.

[F1greyhound]

JAYVEE,

where on earth did FERNANDO win a F1 WDC in an inferior car? )) Come on!

SNOWY,

are you dead sure KEKE is running again this year? ))
Now that would be a real sensation....


May it commence, I cant wait.......:-§)>>> (..growing a beard)

[Lotteboom]

Well I would have to say that Alonso and renault have a point to prove this year, I believe Alsono will be doing his utmost to get another championship under his belt, especially having secured his previous championship with Renault.

I think Lewis Hamilton may find it a little tougher this year (yes im british! lol) I think he is a good driver but it was first season luck.

so my prediction will be

Renault
Ferrari
Mclaren
BMW

(and hoping its a good prediction as my fantasy F! league depends on it... )

[GhoGho]

Well I would have to say that Alonso and renault have a point to prove this year, I believe Alsono will be doing his utmost to get another championship under his belt, especially having secured his previous championship with Renault.

I think Lewis Hamilton may find it a little tougher this year (yes im british! lol) I think he is a good driver but it was first season luck.

so my prediction will be

Renault
Ferrari
Mclaren
BMW

(and hoping its a good prediction as my fantasy F! league depends on it... )

Let me be the first to welcome you to the forums, we hope you become a regular around here!

Don't forget to pop in at the bar sometime.

[JayVee]

JAYVEE,

where on earth did FERNANDO win a F1 WDC in an inferior car? )) Come on!

SNOWY,

are you dead sure KEKE is running again this year? ))
Now that would be a real sensation....


May it commence, I cant wait.......:-§)>>> (..growing a beard)

Well it is well known that the Renault of 2005 wasn't as quick as the McLaren of 2005 and the Renault of 2006 wasn't as quick as the Ferrari of 2006 so the Renault was INFERIOR yet Alonso won both WDCs

And yeah I was wondering what Snowy was thinking!! I didn't think he was that old

[GhoGho]

fast alone does not make a car superior.

[mlittle]

Well I would have to say that Alonso and renault have a point to prove this year, I believe Alsono will be doing his utmost to get another championship under his belt, especially having secured his previous championship with Renault.

I think Lewis Hamilton may find it a little tougher this year (yes im british! lol) I think he is a good driver but it was first season luck.

so my prediction will be

Renault
Ferrari
Mclaren
BMW

(and hoping its a good prediction as my fantasy F! league depends on it... )

Let me be the first to welcome you to the forums, we hope you become a regular around here!

Don't forget to pop in at the bar sometime.

I second the welcome........... Welcome to the forums, lotteboom!

[GhoGho]

I am happy to see that as the start of the season gets closer and the excitment starts to build that the forum is hotting up as well

Sorry JayVee, I couldn't let it slide. I tried hard, but eventually i couldnt resist.

Well it is well known that the Renault of 2005 wasn't as quick as the McLaren of 2005 and the Renault of 2006 wasn't as quick as the Ferrari of 2006 so the Renault was INFERIOR yet Alonso won both WDCs

Here is a breakdown of the 2 seasons:

2005:
Average highest qualifying position for the season
Renault = 2.26
McLarren = 3.57

Average highest finishing position for the season
Renault = 2.00
McLarren = 2.26

2006:
Average highest qualifying position for the season
Renault = 3.22
Ferrari = 3.77

Average highest finishing position for the season
Renault = 2.55
Ferrari = 2.94

Please note that these highest positions were achieved by either driver of the respective teams.

The numbers seem to suggest that the Renault was definitely not an inferior car by any means.

[JayVee]

Good to see you not give up, I would love to be told I am wrong but that has never happened

Your figures are correct but that is for a flying qualifying lap where it is the driver (plus the fuel load of course) make a big difference.

You know very well that a few drivers are hopeless in qualifying and that doesn't mean the car is bad.

Besides, qualifying doesn't give you any points so that doesn't count towards the championship.

(Just to be fair though, you could have reported this:
In 2005
Alonso - 6 Pole Positions
Raikkonen - 5
Montoya - 2
Fisichella - 1

In 2006
Alonso - 6
Schumacher - 4
Massa - 3
Fisichella - 1

Clearly Alonso did most of the work do get the average position that high - driver skill)

Anyway .....

A better figure to consider is the fastest lap of the race and the Renault was not close to either the McLarens nor the Ferraris and it was Alonso's race craft and skill that allowed him to win the races and the championships.

And before anyone starts blaming reliability, here are some stats:

In 2005
Raikkonen had 2 mechanical failure (Nurburgring doesn't count as it was a risk the team and Raikkonen took)
Alonso had no mechanical failures (Canada doesn't count as he damaged his car)

Alonso finished 23 points ahead and that wipes out the 2 race mechanical failure difference.
YET Raikkonen had 10 fastest laps against 2 for Alonso

In 2006
Schumacher had 1 failure (Japan) and Alonso had 2 failures (Italy & Hungary)
YET Schumacher had 7 fastest laps against 5 for Alonso

Alonso finished the season 13 points ahead of Schumacher with a slower and less reliable car.

Looking at the stats, the Renault was inferior in 2005 and 2006 (to a lesser degree) and it was Alonso who made up the difference.

[Redhead]

In 2005, after four races, Alonso was 29 points ahead of Kimi, and that gap was more or less maintained for the rest of the season.

In this situation you would expect Kimi to be pushing a lot harder than Alonso, and for mine this explains the differences in the statistics noted above.

I think Alonso had a pretty good set of wheels underneath him.

cheers,
Cam

[GhoGho]

Good to see you not give up, I would love to be told I am wrong but that has never happened .

I am not saying you are wrong, I just have a different opinion.
In the past we have agreed to disagree on some matters and will probably continue to do so as long as we keep visiting the forum.

Your figures are correct but that is for a flying qualifying lap where it is the driver (plus the fuel load of course) make a big difference.

You know very well that a few drivers are hopeless in qualifying and that doesn't mean the car is bad.

Besides, qualifying doesn't give you any points so that doesn't count towards the championship.

(Just to be fair though, you could have reported this:
In 2005
Alonso - 6 Pole Positions
Raikkonen - 5
Montoya - 2
Fisichella - 1.

In 2006
Alonso - 6
Schumacher - 4
Massa - 3
Fisichella - 1

Clearly Alonso did most of the work do get the average position that high - driver skill)

Yes you are correct, I could have reported it that way, but that leaves it open to the interpretation that maybe Renault gave one driver preferential treatment.
I’m not saying this is the case, but Pat Symonds at Renault is all in favour of a No. 1 and No. 2 status for their drivers, and Sweet FA is Flavios blue eyed boy just as LH is Ron Dennis’s.

Anyway .....

A better figure to consider is the fastest lap of the race and the Renault was not close to either the McLarens nor the Ferraris and it was Alonso's race craft and skill that allowed him to win the races and the championships.

And before anyone starts blaming reliability, here are some stats:

In 2005
Raikkonen had 2 mechanical failure (Nurburgring doesn't count as it was a risk the team and Raikkonen took)
Alonso had no mechanical failures (Canada doesn't count as he damaged his car)

Alonso finished 23 points ahead and that wipes out the 2 race mechanical failure difference.
YET Raikkonen had 10 fastest laps against 2 for Alonso

In 2006
Schumacher had 1 failure (Japan) and Alonso had 2 failures (Italy & Hungary)
YET Schumacher had 7 fastest laps against 5 for Alonso

Alonso finished the season 13 points ahead of Schumacher with a slower and less reliable car.

Looking at the stats, the Renault was inferior in 2005 and 2006 (to a lesser degree) and it was Alonso who made up the difference.

I never blamed reliability, I merely looked at the overall numbers.
I also intentionally did not refer to the fastest lap figures (which I did look at) for the simple reason that as I said before fast alone does not make a car superior.
We all know that in 2005 the Renault package made better use of the Michelins than any other car. McLaren struggled to get enough heat into the rears and that was their biggest problem, and while the Ferrari showed flashes of speed the Bridgestone tires were pretty useless over a full stint. Hell even the Toyota got a fastest lap in 2005, and no one would rate it as a race winner, let alone a championship. Anyone who has ever watched motor racing knows that fast alone does not win races.

As for 2006, again the tires played an important role in a cars total performance and once again Michelin was the better tire. Williams got a fastest lap in 2006, but I don’t recall them winning any races. If I remember correctly Ferrari even started playing the protest game to try to get an advantage, getting Renaults mass damper outlawed. (and the ploy nearly worked ) If Renault was the inferior car why would anyone have to resort to so called “dirty tricks”?

While I do believe that Sweet FA is an extremely talented driver, as are a few others, I do not for one moment believe that the Renaults of 2005 and 2006 were inferior cars.

Cheers

[Kapel]

Hi Everyone

From testing times it looks Ferrari & Mclaren have an edge on everyone..but i would definitely not count out Alonso..inferior car or not.

I believe Alonso is in one of the best positions to win the championship apart from the Ferrari's or Mclaren drivers.

Ferrari have 2 contenders and IMHO so does Mclaren and Alonso could be the beneficiary like Kimi was last year(he drove superbly also) where Mclaren didnt know where to go

IMHO its not gonna b a season where one driver would dominate for race wins.. it will b a case who finishes in the top 3 consistently which shall determine the championship

But yes i would prefer Kimi retaining the championship

1:Kimi
2:Alonso = Hamilton =Massa
3:Hekki
4:Kubica

[JayVee]

GhoGho so what is the definition of inferior if it isn't a combination of speed and reliability ?
Are we then going to consider the tyre compound, the weather, the track layout, if someone brushed Alonso's ego that morning, if Hamilton gets .... oh never mind
I thought the simplest way is to compare fastest lap and reliability.

I know that one can use stats to their own agenda but comparing race pace I thought fastest laps are a better indicator than pole times. Now if we had access to the top 10 or 15 fastest laps for each driver in every race then it would be better.

But please to call Alonso having PT in 2005 and in particular 2006 is really the biggest excuse I've ever heard.
Schumacher with PT only managed 1 more pole than Massa. That tells me that the car was pretty good unlike with Alonso and his teammate, it was Alonso who got the best out of a 'not so good' car.

I think (or I hope) that we both agree that it is much easier to show driver skill in an inferior car than in a perfect car.

And what do you define inferior as ? To me as long as an F1 car is slightly slower than the other then it is inferior. And I mean 2 to 3 tenths not more.

Finally care to explain why when Alonso left Renault they became nowhere and why when Alonso joined McLaren they came from nowhere ?
I am not saying he is to take full credit in both cases but surely his departure and arrival has made major impacts.

Time will tell if he can do his magic again at Renault but I am certainly very optimistic

But hey I am enjoying this and I hope you are too

Redhead, yes Alonso had some good wheels but McLaren were also on Michelins too

Good to see you again Kapel. last year things didn't go that well for me in the idiots group, don't know how I will fair when I pick Alonso to win