2010 Turkish Grand Prix

[Anon]

Webber would of won!

Hamilton could not pass either RBR machines, there was no threat.

If you are going to pass, when running 1 2, then you do it where you can do it safely.

Do you think before the longest fastest turn in the tournament is the correct place?

[Julian Mayo]

I guess Red Bull always favours Vettel!

Now they are saying Webber was told to save fuel but Vettel had another lap to go before needing to save fuel and that Hamilton would have passed him!! At that time Hamilton wasn't as close

Vettel has a habit of taking the driver for granted, he moved to the right when Hamilton tried to overtake (so did Schumacher when Button passed him!!). Vettel simply assumed he had the right to the racing line but Webber was also there. It is the job of the guy behind to overtake, the guy in front is for sure going to make it as hard as possible.

I thought Webber drove a fantastic race and defended well from Hamilton and for Vettel to come through and want to pass when the team told Webber to save fuel is very unfair and the Red Bull team should have known better.
I guess all the Webber fans now feel what I felt when Alonso was at McLaren

Fireworks everywhere now as all isn't well between Hamilton and Button too!!

I guess fuel saving calls are the new team orders!!

Dissapointed with the pace of the Ferraris, at least Alonso made an effort and moved from 12th to 8th

YUP !!!!

[jacfan]

IMHO Seb Vettel did have the right to try and get the lead but not to take out himself and Mark. Mark has the right to defend his position. Mark did not run into Seb.......
SV cost the team a 1,2 in championship and a complete sooky la la who can't stand it when he is being beaten fairly and squarely by his team mate.
No love lost between Hambone and Button either.
The best thing about the collosion was that Seb was the one who lost out from his stupidity.... at least Mark was able to continue on a grab third on the podium.
I am sure there will be many more fireworks in the future.
GO MARK!!!!!!!!

[RB6AUSSIE]

Hi, 1st time post.
I think that Seb is now under intense pressure to perform as he has clearly been advertised as the "great hope" for the Bull's 1st World Championship. My own thoughts are that Mark is far more at home in the car and he is proving this with performance. The collision was due to impatience. Mclaren have already shown that they don't compete with the RB6 in fuel economy and a little more patience from Seb may have played into the Bull's hands. That said, should Mark have yielded? Its racing and my answer is no.

[mlittle]

Hi, 1st time post.
I think that Seb is now under intense pressure to perform as he has clearly been advertised as the "great hope" for the Bull's 1st World Championship. My own thoughts are that Mark is far more at home in the car and he is proving this with performance. The collision was due to impatience. Mclaren have already shown that they don't compete with the RB6 in fuel economy and a little more patience from Seb may have played into the Bull's hands. That said, should Mark have yielded? Its racing and my answer is no.

Welcome to the forums, RB6!

Anyway, I agree............WTH was Sebby V thinking? I could understand making a move like he made towards the end of the season when the titles' are at stake, but we ain't even halfway through the year. Someone needs to teach Sebby V a little patience 'cause he didn't show it out there today. What was especially galling was that, after reading a lot of the news reports from Istanbul, it sounded like ole' Helmut himself threw Webbo under the Red Bull bus...............

It just wasn't a good day for the Red Bulls today.................

[Guest]

The rest of the season is going to be very interesting in the RB camp.
SV has never had a team mate challenge his dominance as the best driver, and things have changed! Webber has taken up the challenge.

MW finally has the car he has been waiting on for all the years he has been in F1, he seems to have gained an amount of confidence that compliments his ability, but more importantly his luck has done a 180....2 years ago MW would have been the one with the puncture and a DNF.
SV has the pace, but not the patience or experience..he assumed Webber would move over for him but Webber held his line and Vettel got his bum bitten.
SV lost driver and constructor points but, he learned "another" lesson (I hope).
Webber and Button have paid their dues, their team mates have had it on a fast track platter, and I'm really enjoying the rivalry within the two camps

Hamilton for driver of the day, just for how he handled turn 8.

This post has a slight Red Wine influence....apologies

[skinnybloke]

The above was posted by Skinny....who thought he was logged in!

[mlittle]

The above was posted by Skinny....who thought he was logged in!

Welcome to the forums, Skinny!

It will be interesting to see what happens in the Red Bull camp the rest of the season; after seeing, (a)Webbo and Sebby V come together on-track, (b)the team's reaction and then (c)the team seemingly throwing Webbo under the bus(someone tell the geniuses' at Red Bull it was Sebby V's fault...... ), I wouldn't be surprised to see Webber elsewhere(perhaps Ferrari.........) in 2011.................

[jido]

Mark Webber did great in qualifications and in the race.
I still see the accident as his responsibility though. He had to slow down because he had less fuel, Vettel still had one round to go at full throttle.

The place Vettel tried to overtake at is where Hamilton tried to overtake Vettel from the outside earlier, he probably got the idea of overtaking there at that time.

Webber knew Vettel is faster. He may be upset when Vettel takes his inside but he needed to leave room to avoid a collision. He didn't.

Red Bull favours Vettel? Well Vettel was faster at the time, should they tell Vettel he should have stayed put?
Is he supposed to be driving meekly behind Webber until the finish line? Do you call that a "race"? Is that the kind of show you come for?

"Unfair" for who, for Webber?
What about the team? The spectators? Why so many Mark Webber supporters suddenly?

I guess fuel saving calls are the new team orders!!

Yeah true. Don't think they give them out when they are not required though.

[JibbaJabba]

Mark Webber did great in qualifications and in the race.
I still see the accident as his responsibility though. He had to slow down because he had less fuel, Vettel still had one round to go at full throttle.

Oh My.

BOTH RBR machines had been told to turn the engines down to conserve fuel. Vettel did not follow this order, which is why he was faster at the time. If you think that Vettel was faster throughout the race, a pass would have been attempted earlier, but why did not this happen?. It was only Vettel who decided 'to be faster', not the car or the driver.

The place Vettel tried to overtake at is where Hamilton tried to overtake Vettel from the outside earlier, he probably got the idea of overtaking there at that time.

Yes!, Hamilton did try to overtake Vettel ON THE OUTSIDE in the same trach position, and backed off, Why? What entry do you have to the next corner when trying to overtake on the inside? Don't forget these are team drivers 1 and 2 without the threat of being passed. Hamilton admitted that he could not pass either of the RBR machines because of their turn 8 ability!

Webber knew Vettel is faster. He may be upset when Vettel takes his inside but he needed to leave room to avoid a collision. He didn't.

Well maybe you should watch the replay again, Webber held his line, until Vettel wheels were past his, when you can see that he was moving over, but was hit by Vettel which can only be described as an abrupt turn.

There was enough room for Vettel, even Vettel thought this, if there wasn't then it is an error in judgment by Vettel. I have never heard of this leaving room for others to pass, we are talking about racing arn't we? The onus is not on the leader to let others pass!

Vettel was going for glory, and stuffed up badly.

He disregarded team orders and cost RBR constructor's points.

He was even saying sorry to the team at the wall when he got back to the pits immediately after the incident, and then LATER says it was Webber's fault. You to not say sorry for something that you believe is someone else's fault, and this is the tell tale sign.

[Guest]

Not a point on the incident, but I disagree with the notion Webber's doing better in the car.

Vettel should've had 75 points from the first three races and didn't solely due to reliability. He had a chassis flaw at Monaco and a car problem in qualifying at Turkey which put him back a bit.

I concur that most of the blame is Vettel's for the crash, but (as happened during 2009) Webber's ahead because Vettel's car keeps breaking, not because he's a faster driver. He isn't.

[Guest]

Vettel started off the year faster than Webber & now Webber seems to have the edge over him. They are both excellent drivers & seem have the best cars in the field at the moment.

As for the incident I think it just shows the inexperience of Vettel. There was no need to rush. If Webber wad going to pit b4 him he had an opportunity to pass the. If he was that much faster her would have made up the time required.

Webber left plenty of room for Vettel. Vettel clearly drive right into Webber & I find it insulting that RB would suggest anything else. I may not be an F1 driver but I am also not blind.

Vettel made a mistake & it's shows his character that he is not willing to accept it. Meanwhile Webber was all class at the post race press conference. Yes I guess wisdom comes with age!!!

[Team Player]

The RBR Team IMO is not a cohesive team.

An interview with Helmut Marko - formula1 website
1. Red Bull team principal Christian Horner said he didn’t believe it was Vettel’s fault.

If it wasn't Vettel's fault, it must be Webber's?

This does not promote team thought at all. At best it is unprofessional, at worst it is bigotry. Who ran into who?

2.
Q: Will you change something in the future to avoid such an incident happening again?
HM: Well, first of all we always told them that it is a strict no-go to go to the wall with each other. Whatever happens they always have to give room to the other. I hope that all the people involved will think a bit more in the future before acting.

Q: That suggests that one of the two should have given way to the other…
HM: Yes.

Clear favoritism right there.

Both HM and CM should be sacked. Both have demonstrated unprofessional conduct.

Q: Have you received a phone call from Red Bull owner Dietrich Mateschitz?
HM: Yes. What does the Queen say? We are not amused? That’s what he said…that he was not amused!

I am sure he is not.

[jido]

Mark Webber did great in qualifications and in the race.
I still see the accident as his responsibility though. He had to slow down because he had less fuel, Vettel still had one round to go at full throttle.

Oh My.

BOTH RBR machines had been told to turn the engines down to conserve fuel.

Did they? Sorry, I did not realise.

Vettel did not follow this order, which is why he was faster at the time. If you think that Vettel was faster throughout the race, a pass would have been attempted earlier, but why did not this happen?.

No I thought that was because he used less fuel and could keep attacking longer and still reach the finish line.

It was only Vettel who decided 'to be faster', not the car or the driver.

The place Vettel tried to overtake at is where Hamilton tried to overtake Vettel from the outside earlier, he probably got the idea of overtaking there at that time.

Yes!, Hamilton did try to overtake Vettel ON THE OUTSIDE in the same trach position, and backed off, Why? What entry do you have to the next corner when trying to overtake on the inside? Don't forget these are team drivers 1 and 2 without the threat of being passed. Hamilton admitted that he could not pass either of the RBR machines because of their turn 8 ability!

Webber knew Vettel is faster. He may be upset when Vettel takes his inside but he needed to leave room to avoid a collision. He didn't.

Well maybe you should watch the replay again, Webber held his line, until Vettel wheels were past his, when you can see that he was moving over, but was hit by Vettel which can only be described as an abrupt turn.

Yeah it seems Vettel was losing adherence on the left. But if the fuel orders were for both drivers at the same time I do not know what else I can believe.

There was enough room for Vettel, even Vettel thought this, if there wasn't then it is an error in judgment by Vettel. I have never heard of this leaving room for others to pass, we are talking about racing arn't we? The onus is not on the leader to let others pass!

LOL you are right, can't the driver leave enough space to prevent the collision while still blocking or impeding the other's manoeuvre?

Vettel was going for glory, and stuffed up badly.

He disregarded team orders and cost RBR constructor's points.

He was even saying sorry to the team at the wall when he got back to the pits immediately after the incident, and then LATER says it was Webber's fault. You to not say sorry for something that you believe is someone else's fault, and this is the tell tale sign.

I do not read that much into that.

[RB6AUSSIE]

I don't understand Horner's and Marko's approach to this. After reading all the different interpretations and views of the incident across the world. They a both unaligned with the rest of the worlds view. Everyone agrees that Seb erred here. The ongoing defence of Seb and the not Mark worries me.
"If they where both told to fuel save"and "if Seb chose not to", then, team decsions can be easily overruled by the drivers. Any such comment around "giving room" as a team rule, then also can be easily overruled by the driver. In case though, Mark did not move, and Hamilton (great view of the incident) felt enough gap was left.
In the end, I don't want to see Mark ride shotgun to Seb, to ensure the WDC. They both deserve the shot and should be allowed to continue to race each other for it. Any drop in Mark's perfomance in Canada and the next coming races, could easily be percieved as team orders to protect Seb and in the end, a very hollow victory in the WDC.
If this does happen, and you follow Webber, start buying up on the Ferrari gear for next season, because that's where he will probably be or sadly, retired.