Hate to say I told you so....

[Kapel]

May I politely and respectfully ask that you desist with the racist angle ? I am talking about NK's skill (or lack of it) not his skin colour.

Rob

My only problem Rob is you're having a dig at Rookies,especially Narain(for your own personal reasons,which i dont care about)Havent seen any article of urs here,which critisizes other seasoned drivers,which were equally bad.

NK made 3 driving mistakes in 2005,Monaco being first.But u being as knowledgeable as ur,must know that once your relationship with your team boss goes sour or Messy as you have put it,things goes bad to worse for drivers(Remember Truli at Renault).Still u can compare 2 drivers in identical cars,where NK out qualified TM 15:9,but TM finish more .But i would still give Narian for trying to be aggressive as he was with DC & JV,not nursing the car.But to my expectation it was not a good 2nd half for NK.Its my perception.Dont want u to agree.

I was critisizing Button not b'cos he's British or having a go at u cos ur one,I was having a go at a driver who has a very big mouth with no results(wins/championships at the end of the day counts,remember),with the backing of media,F1 loving country.I could chose another driver if u want,which u havent mentioned.

Racist or no Racist,i would appreciate critisizm to be fairly across the grid rather pointed at some1 u dont like.Cos ur comments are aimed at one person only,put ppl mind to wander.

[<T-K>]

My only problem Rob is you're having a dig at Rookies,especially Narain(for your own personal reasons,which i dont care about)Havent seen any article of urs here,which critisizes other seasoned drivers,which were equally bad.

I am not trying to take sides here...I agree with you that there are no articles about other drivers.....here, But if you were to take a look at his website, you woul find that he is constantly having a dig at people like Montoya, JV, Alonso, Sato....etc...

or u'll prove that ur a racist or dont like Asia/Indian drivers....

I guess that would make a lot of people in here "racist" or "against Asia/Indian drivers", seeing as i have seen quite a few people putting down Sato(if i am not mistaken, Japan is a part of Asia)....the only reason that no huge argument was started about that was because there are no Sato supporters in here.....


Now i am fully behind you for supporting and defending your national driver, but i am just asking you, and everybody else in here, lets not blow this out of proportion .....

T-K

[Kapel]

I am not trying to take sides here...I agree with you that there are no articles about other drivers.....here, But if you were to take a look at his website, you woul find that he is constantly having a dig at people like Montoya, JV, Alonso, Sato....etc...

Sorry,T-K,what matter to me is what i read here,can go scouting at his lifestyle.Cant find a thing about those guys u mentioned above

I guess that would make a lot of people in here "racist" or "against Asia/Indian drivers", seeing as i have seen quite a few people putting down Sato(if i am not mistaken, Japan is a part of Asia)....the only reason that no huge argument was started about that was because there are no Sato supporters in here.....


Now i am fully behind you for supporting and defending your national driver, but i am just asking you, and everybody else in here, lets not blow this out of proportion .....

T-K

Hey T-K,I can understand with the unrest ur feeling,this arguement was buried in March,but some 1 dug the grave & wanted to see the skeletons,polish it & decorate it asif it was a mummy...

N T-K,its not only about nationality,i've defended for Michael Schumacher & Ferrari from day 1,even when i know what Schumi did at Jerez,Austria n whichever other times they were wrong,which is accepted.
One can point of mistakes of other drivers,show their likes dislikes but dont insult them to an extent only cos one of your many predictions have come alive.

U chill dude,i see u at the bar

[JayVee]

My only problem Rob is you're having a dig at Rookies,especially Narain(for your own personal reasons,which i dont care about)Havent seen any article of urs here,which critisizes other seasoned drivers,which were equally bad.

I am not trying to take sides here...I agree with you that there are no articles about other drivers.....here, But if you were to take a look at his website, you woul find that he is constantly having a dig at people like Montoya, JV, Alonso, Sato....etc...

Ah but T-K, you see even after you went and searched that site you didn't find articles on Button. Yes Button is a good driver (in the current top 10) but his childish actions with his contract surely would warrant a comment by grandprixdiary ??? I asked that question without an answer. And when there isn't an answer I guess we can only speculate!

or u'll prove that ur a racist or dont like Asia/Indian drivers....

I guess that would make a lot of people in here "racist" or "against Asia/Indian drivers", seeing as i have seen quite a few people putting down Sato(if i am not mistaken, Japan is a part of Asia)....the only reason that no huge argument was started about that was because there are no Sato supporters in here.....

No T-K, Sato was clearly in the wrong a few times and the stewards penalised him. I don't recall anyone making a Sato remark because he is Japanese but because his moves where crazy.

Now i am fully behind you for supporting and defending your national driver, but i am just asking you, and everybody else in here, lets not blow this out of proportion .....

T-K

Well as Kapel said it was grandprixdiary who dug this again. And you know why ? IMO to get this kind of discussion going so that people go check out his website (and silly me is helping in that!!)

[Julian Mayo]

My only problem Rob is you're having a dig at Rookies,especially Narain(for your own personal reasons,which i dont care about)Havent seen any article of urs here,which critisizes other seasoned drivers,which were equally bad.

I am not trying to take sides here...I agree with you that there are no articles about other drivers.....here, But if you were to take a look at his website, you woul find that he is constantly having a dig at people like Montoya, JV, Alonso, Sato....etc...

Ah but T-K, you see even after you went and searched that site you didn't find articles on Button. Yes Button is a good driver (in the current top 10) but his childish actions with his contract surely would warrant a comment by grandprixdiary ??? I asked that question without an answer. And when there isn't an answer I guess we can only speculate!

or u'll prove that ur a racist or dont like Asia/Indian drivers....

I guess that would make a lot of people in here "racist" or "against Asia/Indian drivers", seeing as i have seen quite a few people putting down Sato(if i am not mistaken, Japan is a part of Asia)....the only reason that no huge argument was started about that was because there are no Sato supporters in here.....

No T-K, Sato was clearly in the wrong a few times and the stewards penalised him. I don't recall anyone making a Sato remark because he is Japanese but because his moves where crazy.

Now i am fully behind you for supporting and defending your national driver, but i am just asking you, and everybody else in here, lets not blow this out of proportion .....

T-K

Well as Kapel said it was grandprixdiary who dug this again. And you know why ? IMO to get this kind of discussion going so that people go check out his website (and silly me is helping in that!!)

JV, every thinking englishman all over the world is still cringing over Unbuttons mouths comments as to why women will never make it in F1, so much so that 1 wonders if GPD feels the need to raise this issue on this forum after such a long absence merely to divert attention from the fact that the only " Britisher " in F1 is a prize prat who signs contracts worth millions of dollars/pounds..... the pommie kiddies go out and spend, collectively, millions of dollars, only to find that " Oh no.............he didnt win at Silverstone this T-shirt will make a good bum rag"

GPD, your motive for your post was ?

[<T-K>]

No T-K, Sato was clearly in the wrong a few times and the stewards penalised him. I don't recall anyone making a Sato remark because he is Japanese but because his moves where crazy.

Yes, but likewise, no-one said anything about NK being an Indian, it was merely stated that he has not performed as well as expected.....that to me doesnt sound racist.....

I already know that you are going to argue that GPD is targeting NK and not any other rookie drivers, but too be honest, none of the other drivers were given as much exposure, and put on a pedestal such as NK was...i dont know if the media where you stay is the same as here in South Africa, but here all the newspapers and magazines (and even television shows) were going on about how fast and brilliant he was, and that he would be the one to pull Jordan out of trouble.....that is a huge expectation to live up to, and not one of the other drivers got that sort of media attention, and the fact that he did not reach that expectation does not mean that he is not worthy of F1 as GPD quite incorrectly stated.... my view is that he just didnt have the car (nor did he have a good relationship with certain people higher up in the food chain)

and against what you might think i do REALLY hope that he manages to get a drive next year, as i honestly think he has a bit of potential buried within him.....

.................

[Julian Mayo]

sadly my F1 potential was buried so deeply within me they couldnt find it with a deep core drill n Semtex

But I can make a ute dance on two legs

[JayVee]

No T-K, Sato was clearly in the wrong a few times and the stewards penalised him. I don't recall anyone making a Sato remark because he is Japanese but because his moves where crazy.

Yes, but likewise, no-one said anything about NK being an Indian, it was merely stated that he has not performed as well as expected.....that to me doesnt sound racist.....

I already know that you are going to argue that GPD is targeting NK and not any other rookie drivers, but too be honest, none of the other drivers were given as much exposure, and put on a pedestal such as NK was...i dont know if the media where you stay is the same as here in South Africa, but here all the newspapers and magazines (and even television shows) were going on about how fast and brilliant he was, and that he would be the one to pull Jordan out of trouble.....that is a huge expectation to live up to, and not one of the other drivers got that sort of media attention, and the fact that he did not reach that expectation does not mean that he is not worthy of F1 as GPD quite incorrectly stated.... my view is that he just didnt have the car (nor did he have a good relationship with certain people higher up in the food chain)

and against what you might think i do REALLY hope that he manages to get a drive next year, as i honestly think he has a bit of potential buried within him.....

.................

T-K, first I didn't call grandprixdiary a racist. grandprixdiary went back nearly a whole season and dug up a discussion to remind us that Narain isn't going to be in F1 next season while the impressive Monteiro will be. Why ? Why would he mention that even when he also guaranteed us at the time that Monteiro won't be back either ?????
I can only guess that he is after some attention !!

You say that Karthikeyan got a lot of media attention in your country, sure but isn't Button still getting all the attention in the UK and on every ITV coverage around the world ?
Karthikeyan got an article from grandprixdiary before he even raced in F1 yet with all the Button hype that continues season after season I haven't seen an article on him from grandprixdiary (who even thinks Button will win in Malaysia next year - I guess that gives us some idea!!)

As for Karthikeyan, I've said all along he impressed early on and performed as good as any 'pay' rookie out there if not better. From Monaco onwards he went backwards for many reasons but regardless of those reasons I don't think he will be back as he showed a weaker side. A test driver maybe.

[<T-K>]

T-K, first I didn't call grandprixdiary a racist. grandprixdiary went back nearly a whole season and dug up a discussion to remind us that Narain isn't going to be in F1 next season while the impressive Monteiro will be. Why ? Why would he mention that even when he also guaranteed us at the time that Monteiro won't be back either ?????
I can only guess that he is after some attention !!

You say that Karthikeyan got a lot of media attention in your country, sure but isn't Button still getting all the attention in the UK and on every ITV coverage around the world ?
Karthikeyan got an article from grandprixdiary before he even raced in F1 yet with all the Button hype that continues season after season I haven't seen an article on him from grandprixdiary (who even thinks Button will win in Malaysia next year - I guess that gives us some idea!!)

As for Karthikeyan, I've said all along he impressed early on and performed as good as any 'pay' rookie out there if not better. From Monaco onwards he went backwards for many reasons but regardless of those reasons I don't think he will be back as he showed a weaker side. A test driver maybe.

I am not disagreeing with you in anyway, i DO agree that he does not say anything about button's escapades...ever.....and i DO agree that he has done a really strange and attention seeking thing bringing this topic back, and I DO agree that NK had a good start, and tailed off slightly...
i am not defending GPD, because i dont thing digging this topic up was the greatest idea, my only point throughout this whole "debate" is that no-one can say that NK has lived up to the expectations he was "given"......simple....

Now let us declare this topic finally done and dealt with.....see you at the bar....

[RE30B#16]

All i can tell you is that,Narain Karthikeyan would have to cough up double or triple the amount he paid last year for a race seat.I read somewhere between 9.5-14 million dollars,which mayb, in ur country is a small amount but in India is phenomenally huge. If u know Maths - 1USD=45 Rupees.The figures wont fit in your normal calculator.No driver has paid tht kinda sum for a race seat.Plus for your very kind information Narain was Midlands first choice if he could bring that money,which he cant & Tiago can!!! NK's government doesnt back him with finances for a race seat .

You know, it is easy to make jokes about people who are different. Folks made jokes about black golfers until Tiger Woods hit the scene [maybe it's the steroids]. For all intents and purposes, Narain Karthikeyan is a Brit. I seem to have taken notice of Mr Karthikeyan before he hit F1 which means he must have done something significant behind the wheel. He reminds me of other drivers who were well financed and determined like Eliseo Salazar, Pedro Diniz, Olivier Beretta, and Emanuell Pirro. All came to F1 with a sack of dough. All did little in Formula 1, but all proved to be better than anyone ever thought and all have had great careers in racing despite their F1 experiences.

Narain is doing the right thing by looking for a test job. Get paid! Get experience! Learn from a better driver/team! He will probably win LeMans in a few years. Some of his naysayers will never get the egg off their faces if he becomes successful in this sport. Besides, I had never heard of Tiego Monteiro before this season began, and I watch the junior formulae.

Let's face it. Jordan was pretty crappy this year. After Eddie sold, all development of the car ceased. Who can shine in those circumstances expecially with this year's rules on tires and such? Even Michael Schumacher struggled. I say the if MS were in one of the Jordans, his best finish may have been 4th. But wait, he's been world champion about 6 times.

Chris[/quote]

[RE30B#16]

May I politely and respectfully ask that you desist with the racist angle ? I am talking about NK's skill (or lack of it) not his skin colour.

Rob

Are you a racsist because of your remarks? Maybe not. Are you being overly critical of the different driver? Definitely!

Montiero did not have a significantly better year than Karthikeyan, but Karthikeyan was under the microscope more because he is Indian, and the sport has not seen many Indians in the past. Manute Bol was made fun of for being black, African and terrible at basketball, but a few years later Hakeem Olajuwan became a champion and the dominant player in the NBA.

I think some are disappointed at the viciousness of the critiques of Mr Karthikeyan. You cannot SUCK and drive a Formula 1 car at any speed on tracks like Hockenheim or Spa-Francorchamps without KILLING YOURSELF!!! I remember thinking Phillippe Alliot, Alex Caffi and Francois Hesnault (3 obscure F1 drivers from the 80s) were complete losers behind the wheel until I saw them racing shifter karts at a celebrity race. I realized that although they struggled in a formula 1 car, they were badass drivers still. I'm still amazed at watching Alliot win twice over Alain Prost and Ayrton Senna who were trying to do anything and everything to get around. Michael Schumacher was in that race as well. He was in Formula 3 at the time.

The harshest criticism this year should be reserved for the drivers who deserve it, namely Jacques Villeneuve, Jenson Button, Ralf Schumacher, and maybe Juan Montoya for the first half of the year. Ralf and JPM looked more like themselves later in the year. Even Mark Webber managed to get off my crap list, but Button and Villeneuve squandered real opportunities all year with almost determined consistency. Those two deserve the harshest criticism.

Chris