2010 F1 regulations - budget cap - Teams threaten to quit

Maksutov · Post by **Maksutov** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:05 am

Ed wrote:The FIA and FOTA failed to reach agreement today on the issue of cutting costs. The FIA has declared that the financial regulations remain as published.

FIA statement:

FOTA Meeting - 16/06/2009

As agreed at the meeting of 11 June, FIA financial experts met yesterday with financial experts from FOTA.

Unfortunately, the FOTA representatives announced that they had no mandate to discuss the FIA's 2010 financial regulations. Indeed, they were not prepared to discuss regulation at all.

As a result, the meeting could not achieve its purpose of comparing the FIA's rules with the FOTA proposals with a view to finding a common position.

In default of a proper dialogue, the FOTA financial proposals were discussed but it became clear that these would not be capable of limiting the expenditure of a team which had the resources to outspend its competitors. Another financial arms race would then be inevitable.

The FIA Financial Regulations therefore remain as published.

"FOTA financial proposals were discussed but it became clear that these would not be capable of limiting the expenditure of a team which had the resources to outspend its competitors"

Ok, firstly it became clear to Who!?!? Who is this godly person to whom everything became clear!?!?! It is obvious that the answer to that is one person who thinks that he is god, called Max Mosley.

So why would Mr Max Mosley, bother on setting up a meeting to discuss decisions that HE already decided upon!? This is NOT called a meeting it is called an announcement!

And also Mr Max Mosley, explain this definition to me "resources to outspend its competitors" ?

1) If I want to buy an Audi R8, why o why does it cost more than my Hyundai Getz!?!?!? Explain this grade 1 question to me please. Why dont we make them BOTH THE SAME PRICE!? Wow that would be great! quality = cost, that has always been the case and that will always be the case.
2) It has been proven, and it will be proven again and again that outspending your competitors does not necessarily make your car faster. Look at Brawn GP, look at Ferrari prior to Schu era. Look at Moto GP.. etc. Ferrari has always had more money than any other team, but they have not always won.
3) Why did the cost of F1 sky rocket over the years in the first place? Blame Max Mosley for screwing with unrealistic technical regulations over the past 10 years!
4) let's be realistic! --> no one will EVER be able to control the amount of money any team spends in its manufacturing, building and/or testing of cars. And this is true regardless of the regulations that are imposed. If you think you can then you Mr Max are more dumb then the hair on my _ _ _.
5) Do you Max Mosley really want to get few new puny teams at the cost of losing one or two of the most popular teams ever!?

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:16 am

Yup, he does.

Ed · Post by Ed » Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:26 pm

It is reported that FOTA are offering a last attempt compromise to save F1. They are reportedly agreeing to a budget cap or 'resource restriction' but that is to be monitored by independent accountants chosen by the teams. They also ask that the entry deadline be extended for another 2 weeks so that a concorde agreement is agreed.

More: FOTA offers compromise to end F1 crisis

Related:
Montezemolo downbeat as crisis hits bottom
F1 crisis continues to spiral out of control

Ed · Post by Ed » Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:53 pm

The FIA have replied to the FOTA letter without offering them anything different to what was offered last Friday. Basically enter now conditionally then discuss any changes.

The FIA seem to have read FOTA's letter as a sign of weakness (which it maybe) and Max isn't willing to compromise as he feels that FOTA will accept.

However, if FOTA does not accept the FIA's proposals, it will certainly mean a split. Are FOTA prepared to do that ?

More: Mosley does not simply agree to FOTA compromise

The letters between the FIA and FOTA (as published by the FIA - all in pdf)
Letter from FOTA
Letter from the FIA
Background on cost cap discussions between the FIA and the F1 teams

Maksutov · Post by **Maksutov** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:02 am

Ed wrote:The FIA have replied to the FOTA letter without offering them anything different to what was offered last Friday. Basically enter now conditionally then discuss any changes.

The FIA seem to have read FOTA's letter as a sign of weakness (which it maybe) and Max isn't willing to compromise as he feels that FOTA will accept.

However, if FOTA does not accept the FIA's proposals, it will certainly mean a split. Are FOTA prepared to do that ?

More: Mosley does not simply agree to FOTA compromise

The letters between the FIA and FOTA (as published by the FIA - all in pdf)
Letter from FOTA
Letter from the FIA
Background on cost cap discussions between the FIA and the F1 teams

This is indeed a sign of weakness and I am totally disappointed that FOTA have now changed their tune.

If they simply accept Max's demands they will look right down unintelligent and brainless. It would be totally embarrassing for them to now, after all this, simply kneel down to Mosley. Ferrari should keep its word and simply pull out of F1 (which I would not like but WTH) because otherwise they would look silly.

The only solution I see now is that Ferrari and other teams that might support them, should simply pull out. And after a few years when everybody realizes that the budged cap does not actually work as they planned (because there will be lots of cheating and pointing fingers even if the accused are innocent). Ferrari can then try to re'enter into F1 at the time when Mosley is not in power anymore.

What else can I say, that is the worst case scenario, but clearly Max seems to be successful in manipulating everyone. Any other resolution will make FOTA and or Ferrari look right down stupid.

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:53 am

I disagree. Respectfully.
I think FOTA have done a beautiful little Job on Mad Max.

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:35 am

The Sponsors are either loving all this, or hating it, depending on their mindsets.
But they must all be poised to jump soon as they feel the need.

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:39 am

Ed wrote:The FIA have replied to the FOTA letter without offering them anything different to what was offered last Friday. Basically enter now conditionally then discuss any changes.

The FIA seem to have read FOTA's letter as a sign of weakness (which it maybe) and Max isn't willing to compromise as he feels that FOTA will accept.

However, if FOTA does not accept the FIA's proposals, it will certainly mean a split. Are FOTA prepared to do that ?

More: Mosley does not simply agree to FOTA compromise

The letters between the FIA and FOTA (as published by the FIA - all in pdf)
Letter from FOTA
Letter from the FIA
Background on cost cap discussions between the FIA and the F1 teams

FIA has responded with vague promises, if the Teams sign on Friday.
The Teams would have to be prepared to TRUST Mad Max.

Post by **Tim** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:28 pm

FOTA are now in a difficult position. If they are serious about their cause then they cannot accept the latest offer from the FIA as the FIA haven't offered any concessions. But in order to reject the offer they have to be united otherwise they risk a few teams defecting.

If they accept the FIA's letter then it is game over for the FOTA entity.

I must say that it is very difficult for an association made up of competitors to be strong and united, in whatever field.

Read more on the blogs - A critical time for FOTA

Post by **Tim** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:06 pm

On the issue of Cosworth, I really wonder why are they even allowed to supply engines to the Formula 1 teams ? It certainly isn't cost effective as another supplier is added and after reading this statement: "Cosworth have neither the time nor the resources to retune for 2010" (from the letter from the FIA to FOTA), I must ask the question why is the FIA allowing a supplier to come into F1 yet (and by their own admission) this supplier doesn't have the time nor the resources to comply with the regulations.

There are 5 engine suppliers already in Formula 1 (Ferrari, Mercedes, BMW, Renault and Toyota). If the FIA want's another entrant, perhaps they could negotiate a deal with Honda as they also have engines that do comply with the regulations.

Nothing against Cosworth but if they want to supply engines (and make a profit I am sure), they need to be on a level playing field.

One has to wonder about the real motives behind this!

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:22 pm

Tim wrote:On the issue of Cosworth, I really wonder why are they even allowed to supply engines to the Formula 1 teams ? It certainly isn't cost effective as another supplier is added and after reading this statement: "Cosworth have neither the time nor the resources to retune for 2010" (from the letter from the FIA to FOTA), I must ask the question why is the FIA allowing a supplier to come into F1 yet (and by their own admission) this supplier doesn't have the time nor the resources to comply with the regulations.

There are 5 engine suppliers already in Formula 1 (Ferrari, Mercedes, BMW, Renault and Toyota). If the FIA want's another entrant, perhaps they could negotiate a deal with Honda as they also have engines that do comply with the regulations.

Nothing against Cosworth but if they want to supply engines (and make a profit I am sure), they need to be on a level playing field.

One has to wonder about the real motives behind this!

Max might have been using some of his son's product. If not, I am at a loss in trying to comprehend the ridiculous rules emanating from the FIA, which is there to police rules, not institute them.

Maksutov · Post by **Maksutov** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:46 pm

Julian Mayo wrote:I disagree. Respectfully.
I think FOTA have done a beautiful little Job on Mad Max.

I would like to believe that. But reality is that so far Mosley has the upper hand. Lets wait and see what FOTA do next.

Maksutov · Post by **Maksutov** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:51 pm

Julian Mayo wrote:
Ed wrote:The FIA have replied to the FOTA letter without offering them anything different to what was offered last Friday. Basically enter now conditionally then discuss any changes.

The FIA seem to have read FOTA's letter as a sign of weakness (which it maybe) and Max isn't willing to compromise as he feels that FOTA will accept.

However, if FOTA does not accept the FIA's proposals, it will certainly mean a split. Are FOTA prepared to do that ?

More: Mosley does not simply agree to FOTA compromise

The letters between the FIA and FOTA (as published by the FIA - all in pdf)
Letter from FOTA
Letter from the FIA
Background on cost cap discussions between the FIA and the F1 teams
FIA has responded with vague promises, if the Teams sign on Friday.
The Teams would have to be prepared to TRUST Mad Max.

yes again vague promises. Mosley is just doing more of the same. His position has not changed because he thinks he is smarter. So basically if FOTA sign it doesnt count what Max proposes or suggests verbally. That is what he has been doing the whole time.

==> Mosley

Maksutov · Post by **Maksutov** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:53 pm

Tim wrote:FOTA are now in a difficult position. If they are serious about their cause then they cannot accept the latest offer from the FIA as the FIA haven't offered any concessions. But in order to reject the offer they have to be united otherwise they risk a few teams defecting.

If they accept the FIA's letter then it is game over for the FOTA entity.

I must say that it is very difficult for an association made up of competitors to be strong and united, in whatever field.

Read more on the blogs - A critical time for FOTA

Exactly! If FOTA yield, no one would ever take them seriously again. And they can simply scrub their little organization because it is totally powerless and useless. Which is exactly what Mosley is trying to achieve.

Maksutov · Post by **Maksutov** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:01 pm

Tim wrote:On the issue of Cosworth, I really wonder why are they even allowed to supply engines to the Formula 1 teams ? It certainly isn't cost effective as another supplier is added and after reading this statement: "Cosworth have neither the time nor the resources to retune for 2010" (from the letter from the FIA to FOTA), I must ask the question why is the FIA allowing a supplier to come into F1 yet (and by their own admission) this supplier doesn't have the time nor the resources to comply with the regulations.

There are 5 engine suppliers already in Formula 1 (Ferrari, Mercedes, BMW, Renault and Toyota). If the FIA want's another entrant, perhaps they could negotiate a deal with Honda as they also have engines that do comply with the regulations.

Nothing against Cosworth but if they want to supply engines (and make a profit I am sure), they need to be on a level playing field.

One has to wonder about the real motives behind this!

Well the real motive so far is that Max Mosley simply wants to increase his power over teams, to not only control them with technical regulations, but to also monitor and CONTROL their financial dealings. that is like me going to your house and telling you what you can and can not buy for the rest of your carrier, and on top of that also spying on what you do with your money. Since Mosley will have full intrusion on all of the teams dealings.

If this is the case then Mosley and the FIA should simply make 10 of their own teams (all owned by Mosley) and that is it. race with himself.