Couldn't agree more if I tried!!!!Julian Mayo wrote:I reckon the FIA should be investigated. I reckon they couldn't butter a slice of bread without stuffing it up.
The more I think about it, the nonsense within McLaren at Hungabororing should have been left as an in-house matter, instead the FIA turned it into an out-house.
The Ferrari investigation (McLaren issues apology)
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jacfan
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Holy crap on a cracker! 
Number one idiot for 2007!!!!!
2008 Round of France winner!!! Wooooooohoooo!!!!!!
2010 Round of Britian winner!!!!!!
Number one idiot for 2007!!!!!
2008 Round of France winner!!! Wooooooohoooo!!!!!!
2010 Round of Britian winner!!!!!!
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Redhead
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Just for fun I thought I'd find out what Article 151(c) of the International Sporting Code actually says;
"151. Breach of rules
Any of the following offences in addition to any offences specifically referred to previously, shall be deemed to be a breach of these rules :
.
.
c) Any fraudulent conduct or any act prejudicial to the interests of any competition or to the interests of motor sport generally"
full text at http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/ ... code_a.pdf
"151. Breach of rules
Any of the following offences in addition to any offences specifically referred to previously, shall be deemed to be a breach of these rules :
.
.
c) Any fraudulent conduct or any act prejudicial to the interests of any competition or to the interests of motor sport generally"
full text at http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/ ... code_a.pdf
All Italiano WDC 2007!
(OK there was a Finn, a Brazilian and a Frenchman ...........)
(OK there was a Finn, a Brazilian and a Frenchman ...........)
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Julian Mayo
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Cam
And Honda for the biggest freefall in five months.Julian Mayo wrote:Then we have Todt, for looking the way he does,
Button and his Ego,
Ralf........for being Ralf
most of the STR management for their management style,
the ITN commentators........etc, etc.....cite 'em all I say
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. - Douglas Adams (1952-2001)
Following a statement by the FIA that they have received new evidence in the Ferrari-McLaren case, the appeal has been withdrawn and instead they have convened a hearing for the World Motor Sport Council.
The FIA statement read:
Following the receipt of new evidence the World Motor Sport Council has been reconvened for a hearing in Paris on September 13th.
In accordance with its decision of July 26th representatives of Vodafone McLaren Mercedes have been invited to attend the hearing.
The FIA President’s referral of the matter to the International Court of Appeal has been withdrawn.
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Whilst there was no details on the new evidence, this doesn't sound like good news for the McLaren team as in the original hearing that cleared McLaren, the FIA at the time stated:
"But if it is found in the future that the Ferrari information has been used to the detriment of the championship, we reserve the right to invite Vodafone McLaren Mercedes back in front of the WMSC where it will face the possibility of exclusion from not only the 2007 championship but also the 2008 championship"
The FIA statement read:
Following the receipt of new evidence the World Motor Sport Council has been reconvened for a hearing in Paris on September 13th.
In accordance with its decision of July 26th representatives of Vodafone McLaren Mercedes have been invited to attend the hearing.
The FIA President’s referral of the matter to the International Court of Appeal has been withdrawn.
---------------------------------------
Whilst there was no details on the new evidence, this doesn't sound like good news for the McLaren team as in the original hearing that cleared McLaren, the FIA at the time stated:
"But if it is found in the future that the Ferrari information has been used to the detriment of the championship, we reserve the right to invite Vodafone McLaren Mercedes back in front of the WMSC where it will face the possibility of exclusion from not only the 2007 championship but also the 2008 championship"
Following the FIA announcement, the McLaren team released the following statement:
McLaren Racing has been made aware that new evidence has been presented to the FIA as part of their on-going investigation.
As a result we have been informed that the Court of Appeal Hearing scheduled for the 13th September in Paris will now comprise a meeting of the WMSC.
McLaren will continue to co-operate fully with the FIA.
McLaren Racing has been made aware that new evidence has been presented to the FIA as part of their on-going investigation.
As a result we have been informed that the Court of Appeal Hearing scheduled for the 13th September in Paris will now comprise a meeting of the WMSC.
McLaren will continue to co-operate fully with the FIA.
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Julian Mayo
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Julian Mayo
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It seems, following a tip off from one, all the DRIVERS have been sent a fax by the FIA stating that they must pass on any info they have about the case, hearsay or not.
Hmmm.....if McLaren is found guilty, that would almost certainly activate an escape clause in a certain McLaren Driver's contract
Cousin Bernice reckons there will be some dark looks, and much muted muttering, in at least one Garage at Monza
The interesting thing is, the FIA holds that McLaren must be held responsible for its employees, under the Article used in this case. Ferrari, then must surely be charged under the same Article, as Stepney was their employee at the time he passed on the documents........
Hmmm.....if McLaren is found guilty, that would almost certainly activate an escape clause in a certain McLaren Driver's contract
Cousin Bernice reckons there will be some dark looks, and much muted muttering, in at least one Garage at Monza
The interesting thing is, the FIA holds that McLaren must be held responsible for its employees, under the Article used in this case. Ferrari, then must surely be charged under the same Article, as Stepney was their employee at the time he passed on the documents........
The Mountain is a savage Mistress.
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Southernman
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Julian Mayo
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Ferrari issued this statement in response to the hearing announcement
Ferrari notes the FIA’s decision to call an extraordinary meeting of the World Motor Sport Council to examine new evidence that has emerged with regards to the accusation that Vodafone McLaren Mercedes has violated article 151c of the International Sporting Code.
Ferrari will be present at the Council meeting on the 13th September in Paris and wishes to reaffirm its own strong wish that all the elements in this case are brought to light. Ferrari is confident that the truth will out.
Ferrari notes the FIA’s decision to call an extraordinary meeting of the World Motor Sport Council to examine new evidence that has emerged with regards to the accusation that Vodafone McLaren Mercedes has violated article 151c of the International Sporting Code.
Ferrari will be present at the Council meeting on the 13th September in Paris and wishes to reaffirm its own strong wish that all the elements in this case are brought to light. Ferrari is confident that the truth will out.
The FIA has released the letters sent to the three McLaren drivers. An FIA statement read:
The FIA has noted the various reports in the international press regarding the discovery of new evidence in the Vodafone McLaren Mercedes investigation.
In the interests of complete transparency the FIA has decided to publish the text of the letter written to Fernando Alonso, Pedro De La Rosa and Lewis Hamilton on August 31st, 2007.
It should be clear from the contents of the letter that the three McLaren drivers were required to cooperate fully with the FIA in the completion of its investigation.
It is the duty of all those involved in the sport to ensure the fairness and legitimacy of the FIA Formula One World Championship.
------------------------
Below is the letter sent to Pedro de la Rosa (the same letter was sent to Alonso and Hamilton)
Dear Mr De La Rosa,
As you will be aware, the FIA has recently investigated whether, how and to what extent McLaren was in possession of confidential Ferrari technical information. The FIA has subsequently been made aware of an allegation that one or more McLaren drivers may be in possession, or that such drivers have recently been in possession, of written evidence relevant to this investigation.
In the interests of the sport and the Championship it is important that the FIA as the regulator establishes unequivocally and rapidly whether or not this allegation has any basis in fact.
The FIA therefore formally requests that you produce copies of any relevant documents which may be in your possession or power of procurement and which may be relevant to this case. For these purposes “documents” includes all written materials such as emails, letters, electronic communications, text messages, notes, memoranda, drawings, diagrams, data,. or other material, stored in any physical, “hard copy” or electronic form.
In particular (though without limiting the generality of this request), the FIA wishes to receive copies of any electronic communications (howsoever conveyed or stored) which may be relevant to this case and which make reference to Ferrari, Nigel Stepney or any technical or other information coming from or connected with either Ferrari or Mr Stepney. In the event that you are aware of the existence or previous existence of any document falling within the above description but are not in a position to produce it, please describe the content of the document in question, the circumstances under which it came to your knowledge and the reasons why you are unable to produce it. In the event that you are unsure as to whether any document falls within the above description, kindly submit it (or a description of it) and the FIA will assist in making a determination.
You will appreciate that there is a duty on all competitors and Super Licence holders to ensure the fairness and legitimacy of the Formula One World Championship. It is therefore imperative that if you do have any such information, you make it available to us without delay. I can confirm, given the importance of this issue, that any information you may make available in response to this letter will not result in any proceedings against you under the International Sporting Code or the Formula One regulations. However, in the event that it later comes to light that you have withheld any potentially relevant information, serious consequences could follow.
We are sending identical letters to Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton. We look forward to hearing from you at your earliest convenience. Thank you very much for your co-operation.
Yours sincerely
Max Mosley
The FIA has noted the various reports in the international press regarding the discovery of new evidence in the Vodafone McLaren Mercedes investigation.
In the interests of complete transparency the FIA has decided to publish the text of the letter written to Fernando Alonso, Pedro De La Rosa and Lewis Hamilton on August 31st, 2007.
It should be clear from the contents of the letter that the three McLaren drivers were required to cooperate fully with the FIA in the completion of its investigation.
It is the duty of all those involved in the sport to ensure the fairness and legitimacy of the FIA Formula One World Championship.
------------------------
Below is the letter sent to Pedro de la Rosa (the same letter was sent to Alonso and Hamilton)
Dear Mr De La Rosa,
As you will be aware, the FIA has recently investigated whether, how and to what extent McLaren was in possession of confidential Ferrari technical information. The FIA has subsequently been made aware of an allegation that one or more McLaren drivers may be in possession, or that such drivers have recently been in possession, of written evidence relevant to this investigation.
In the interests of the sport and the Championship it is important that the FIA as the regulator establishes unequivocally and rapidly whether or not this allegation has any basis in fact.
The FIA therefore formally requests that you produce copies of any relevant documents which may be in your possession or power of procurement and which may be relevant to this case. For these purposes “documents” includes all written materials such as emails, letters, electronic communications, text messages, notes, memoranda, drawings, diagrams, data,. or other material, stored in any physical, “hard copy” or electronic form.
In particular (though without limiting the generality of this request), the FIA wishes to receive copies of any electronic communications (howsoever conveyed or stored) which may be relevant to this case and which make reference to Ferrari, Nigel Stepney or any technical or other information coming from or connected with either Ferrari or Mr Stepney. In the event that you are aware of the existence or previous existence of any document falling within the above description but are not in a position to produce it, please describe the content of the document in question, the circumstances under which it came to your knowledge and the reasons why you are unable to produce it. In the event that you are unsure as to whether any document falls within the above description, kindly submit it (or a description of it) and the FIA will assist in making a determination.
You will appreciate that there is a duty on all competitors and Super Licence holders to ensure the fairness and legitimacy of the Formula One World Championship. It is therefore imperative that if you do have any such information, you make it available to us without delay. I can confirm, given the importance of this issue, that any information you may make available in response to this letter will not result in any proceedings against you under the International Sporting Code or the Formula One regulations. However, in the event that it later comes to light that you have withheld any potentially relevant information, serious consequences could follow.
We are sending identical letters to Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton. We look forward to hearing from you at your earliest convenience. Thank you very much for your co-operation.
Yours sincerely
Max Mosley
Last edited by Ed on Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:08 am, edited 3 times in total.
The McLaren team then issued a statement that read:
We understand that information has again been leaked into the media and consequently there is a desire for us to address the issues that relate to the meeting of the World Motorsport Council on Thursday 13th September 2007 where we intend to make a strong set of submissions.
However our lawyers have advised us that as the case will be heard by the World Motor Sport Council on Thursday of next week that this is the appropriate forum for the matter to be discussed, and that the team and our drivers should make no further comment.
We kindly ask the media to understand this position.
We understand that information has again been leaked into the media and consequently there is a desire for us to address the issues that relate to the meeting of the World Motorsport Council on Thursday 13th September 2007 where we intend to make a strong set of submissions.
However our lawyers have advised us that as the case will be heard by the World Motor Sport Council on Thursday of next week that this is the appropriate forum for the matter to be discussed, and that the team and our drivers should make no further comment.
We kindly ask the media to understand this position.