The 2007 Hungarian Grand Prix

[Julian Mayo]

You have to take your hat off to Ron "Darth" Dennis, its like he's got one of those little light beam thingys Will Smith had in Men in Black and zapped everyone in the eyes with it and whatever he says is accepted as gospel.

Somehow now Lewis is the villain of the piece, hes fallen off the pedestal, he's lying on the ground and the mob is surrounding him, people are kicking him and the rest are getting their joliies from realising he's human like the rest of us, and revelling in punishing him for it. Talk about tall poppy sydrome.

Even JM is happy to mis-quote him above (contrast it with the actual quote in Eds post below) to perpetuate the new myth that he is a egotistical, totally self interested piece if work.

And what was his sin?

He didnt let Alonso past in Q3.

What effect did this have?

Due to the pecualiarity of certain tracks (of which the Hungaroring is one), if both team drivers are in Q3, one is able to have one extra fuel burning lap than the other. Mclaren had decided that Alonso would have this extra lap. The benefit of the extra lap would be a car that was 2.3kgs lighter relative to the other which equates to 0.05s quicker lap time.

Thats right, just in case you missed it, I'll say it again Lewis's crime was to make sweet FAs car 0.05s a lap slower.

Sweet FAs crime was to prevent Lewis from completing one of his hot laps.

Which do you think is worse?

Lewis's transgression deserves further analysis. The theory is that sweet FA would have been ahead and could have hared off in to the distance to give himself more time to put his extra fuel burning lap in. As it was Lewis headed off so quickly sweet FA had trouble keeping up. You have to wonder how much further ahead sweet FA would have been and how it really affected the planned sequence of stops.

Of course Lewis's real crime was not costing sweet FA 0.05s, it was disregarding team instructions. But how do we know about that? because his team told us all about it. In other words, in response for his disobedience his team has completely shafted him, I would have thought that was punishment enough.

The other thing that mystifies me is people excusing sweet FA, suddenly two wrongs make a right, petty revenge is now justifiable.

Lewis doesn't deserve his new reputation, sure he has lost some gloss, but that was not real anyway, he has made one mistake, Im picking hes got the class to learn from it, at the very least the guy should be cut a bit more slack.

Admittedly, maths is not my strongest discipline, so .05 times the number of laps equals, imho, a pretty fair old gap, especially on a track which is extremely difficult when it comes to overtaking.

[Redhead]

You have to take your hat off to Ron "Darth" Dennis, its like he's got one of those little light beam thingys Will Smith had in Men in Black and zapped everyone in the eyes with it and whatever he says is accepted as gospel.

Somehow now Lewis is the villain of the piece, hes fallen off the pedestal, he's lying on the ground and the mob is surrounding him, people are kicking him and the rest are getting their joliies from realising he's human like the rest of us, and revelling in punishing him for it. Talk about tall poppy sydrome.

Even JM is happy to mis-quote him above (contrast it with the actual quote in Eds post below) to perpetuate the new myth that he is a egotistical, totally self interested piece if work.

And what was his sin?

He didnt let Alonso past in Q3.

What effect did this have?

Due to the pecualiarity of certain tracks (of which the Hungaroring is one), if both team drivers are in Q3, one is able to have one extra fuel burning lap than the other. Mclaren had decided that Alonso would have this extra lap. The benefit of the extra lap would be a car that was 2.3kgs lighter relative to the other which equates to 0.05s quicker lap time.

Thats right, just in case you missed it, I'll say it again Lewis's crime was to make sweet FAs car 0.05s a lap slower.

Sweet FAs crime was to prevent Lewis from completing one of his hot laps.

Which do you think is worse?

Lewis's transgression deserves further analysis. The theory is that sweet FA would have been ahead and could have hared off in to the distance to give himself more time to put his extra fuel burning lap in. As it was Lewis headed off so quickly sweet FA had trouble keeping up. You have to wonder how much further ahead sweet FA would have been and how it really affected the planned sequence of stops.

Of course Lewis's real crime was not costing sweet FA 0.05s, it was disregarding team instructions. But how do we know about that? because his team told us all about it. In other words, in response for his disobedience his team has completely shafted him, I would have thought that was punishment enough.

The other thing that mystifies me is people excusing sweet FA, suddenly two wrongs make a right, petty revenge is now justifiable.

Lewis doesn't deserve his new reputation, sure he has lost some gloss, but that was not real anyway, he has made one mistake, Im picking hes got the class to learn from it, at the very least the guy should be cut a bit more slack.

Admittedly, maths is not my strongest discipline, so .05 times the number of laps equals, imho, a pretty fair old gap, especially on a track which is extremely difficult when it comes to overtaking.

In other words the 0.05s is irrelevant as far as the race is concerned, the only thing that matters is the qualifying position, if sweet FA had done nothing and Lewis had outqualified him by 0.05s or less then sweet FA might have a legitimate gripe otherwise it would have meant nothing.

[Julian Mayo]

I would have thought that having Pole, with a car that was .05 faster would have some relevance to the race.

[Redhead]

I would have thought that having Pole, with a car that was .05 faster would have some relevance to the race.

Pole yes, 0.05s faster at the Hungaroring, none whatsoever.

[Julian Mayo]

I would have thought that having Pole, with a car that was .05 faster would have some relevance to the race.

Pole yes, 0.05s faster at the Hungaroring, none whatsoever.

I still would prefer that, to being .05 slower
All this .05 talk is making me durned thirsty.

[Redhead]

I would have thought that having Pole, with a car that was .05 faster would have some relevance to the race.

Pole yes, 0.05s faster at the Hungaroring, none whatsoever.

I still would prefer that, to being .05 slower
All this .05 talk is making me durned thirsty.

If you had to choose between having your car slowed down by 0.05s/lap for qualifying and the first stint of the race, or having one less qualifying lap, which would it be?

[Julian Mayo]

Either, if it was in a McLaren F1 car

[Redhead]

[Snowy]

This has turned quite nasty. I shall attempt to spread oil on troubled water and hope no one sees fit to throw a match in it!

Pole position was very important to both Fernando and Lewis. Fernando wasn't able to get the option tyre to work for him and was very surprised when Lewis (very suddenly and unexpectedly) did. Apparently Hungaroring is not one of those circuits where only one of the drivers is able to get the extra fuel burn lap in, which is why the stewards of the meeting dismissed McLaren's claim that the initial 20sec hold was a normal procedural occurance and felt the need to penalise the team. Fernando was never going to get pole if Lewis completed his final run (barring a mistake) as even with the lighter car his tyres would not give him the 2 or 3 tenths he needed. It is possible that Fernado was indeed completely innocent however as it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that he was seriously considering the option tyre as a reasonable gamble as the track had definately rubbered in. Indeed it is not beyond the bounds of probability that Ron and "the management" had to or chose to concoct a story to explain the teams behaviour. And their concocted story was in fact their downfall and not the actions of their drivers. It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that things transpired as the team described, in which case no one is completely blameless but neither are they monsters and incapable of playing fair.

It is not reasonable to berate either driver for attempting to outwit the other, whilst this is a sport it is a highly lucrative and challenging occupation where the slightest slip can end a career or leave you in the position Jenson finds himself. If you lose out to your teammate too often you are not going stay at the pinnacle of the sport and both these drivers are very aware of that. Fernando has far more to lose in this regard and therefore is probably going to go further than most would to protect his lifetimes investment. Who can blame Lewis for testing Fernando's metal? We should all try to be a little civilised and bury the metaphorical hatchet at least until the season has played itself out. You never know it might end amicably with Lewis and Fernando scoring exactly the same number of points and number of wins and Felipe or Kimi taking the championship by one point, who knows? The possibilities are endless and I for one can't wait to find out how this ends! I certainly wouldn't want to spoil my enjoyment by arguing over the wrongs and rights of an issue that I really am in no position to judge objectively and with any degree of certainty.

[Julian Mayo]

, I have a very good computer for sale, a free axe goes with it

[Julian Mayo]

This has turned quite nasty. I shall attempt to spread oil on troubled water and hope no one sees fit to throw a match in it!

Pole position was very important to both Fernando and Lewis. Fernando wasn't able to get the option tyre to work for him and was very surprised when Lewis (very suddenly and unexpectedly) did. Apparently Hungaroring is not one of those circuits where only one of the drivers is able to get the extra fuel burn lap in, which is why the stewards of the meeting dismissed McLaren's claim that the initial 20sec hold was a normal procedural occurance and felt the need to penalise the team. Fernando was never going to get pole if Lewis completed his final run (barring a mistake) as even with the lighter car his tyres would not give him the 2 or 3 tenths he needed. It is possible that Fernado was indeed completely innocent however as it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that he was seriously considering the option tyre as a reasonable gamble as the track had definately rubbered in. Indeed it is not beyond the bounds of probability that Ron and "the management" had to or chose to concoct a story to explain the teams behaviour. And their concocted story was in fact their downfall and not the actions of their drivers. It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that things transpired as the team described, in which case no one is completely blameless but neither are they monsters and incapable of playing fair.

It is not reasonable to berate either driver for attempting to outwit the other, whilst this is a sport it is a highly lucrative and challenging occupation where the slightest slip can end a career or leave you in the position Jenson finds himself. If you lose out to your teammate too often you are not going stay at the pinnacle of the sport and both these drivers are very aware of that. Fernando has far more to lose in this regard and therefore is probably going to go further than most would to protect his lifetimes investment. Who can blame Lewis for testing Fernando's metal? We should all try to be a little civilised and bury the metaphorical hatchet at least until the season has played itself out. You never know it might end amicably with Lewis and Fernando scoring exactly the same number of points and number of wins and Felipe or Kimi taking the championship by one point, who knows? The possibilities are endless and I for one can't wait to find out how this ends! I certainly wouldn't want to spoil my enjoyment by arguing over the wrongs and rights of an issue that I really am in no position to judge objectively and with any degree of certainty.

Yer out of bounds, Snowy

[jido]

Lewis says that he kept Alonso behind because the latter had Kimi in tow, which could have compromised his qualifying if he let both pass. He just "forgot" to explain that to his team from the looks of it. And then Alonso kept his foot on the brake for some reason.

Still not clear what happened, but some people are reacting a bit extreme

[Jim Watt]

I just logged on to thank JayVee for her kindness in responding to my earlier posting. And I ended up laffing as Snowy tried to "calm" things down. But it really does make a difference for racing fans, during the off season that seems so loooong, when their driver has either (a) been robbed of the WDC; or (b) been kept from getting the WDC by bad luck or bad machinery or bad team decisions.

What's fun for me is that it looks pretty certain that the WDC will go to the McLaren team -- and no matter which driver gets it, the other's supporters will cry 'foul"!

does anyone remember the season Schumi broke his leg (in Canada) and Eddie Irvine looked for a while to have a shot? I seem to remember the much hated German doing some excellent work to HELP his partner.

Of course, he couldn't possibly win it himself. Still... ahh, probably just another machievellian move from the master of malice.

Check out the Kimi interview in Motorsport; I like the idea of his being a modern James Hunt.

cheers!

Jim Watt

p.s. snowy, don't let the fuss get you down it just gives us all a reason to log back on!

[Redhead]

I really dont feel that the above exchange can be described as nasty, I was trying to make a fairly technical point about some of the realities behind the recent saga which didnt back up the scale of the backlash against Lewis. I got a little frustrated when I didnt get a straight answer out of JM to a question I dont think I could have put any more straightforwardly, but don't get me wrong JM is under no obligation to give a straight answer, we're all entitled to post as we please, so I directed my frustration at my computer not at JM but I guess I was being a little too subtle for my own good. JM got it, as he rightly realised I now need a new computer, but hey, I was at work at the time

I think we should all be a bit more tolerant of a bit of disagreement, the occasional without having to all the time. There is a line beyind which things get unacceptable but I think the above exchange is a long way off it.


Cam

[Julian Mayo]

I really dont feel that the above exchange can be described as nasty, I was trying to make a fairly technical point about some of the realities behind the recent saga which didnt back up the scale of the backlash against Lewis. I got a little frustrated when I didnt get a straight answer out of JM to a question I dont think I could have put any more straightforwardly, but don't get me wrong JM is under no obligation to give a straight answer, we're all entitled to post as we please, so I directed my frustration at my computer not at JM but I guess I was being a little too subtle for my own good. JM got it, as he rightly realised I now need a new computer, but hey, I was at work at the time

I think we should all be a bit more tolerant of a bit of disagreement, the occasional without having to all the time. There is a line beyind which things get unacceptable but I think the above exchange is a long way off it.


Cam

Nice post Red.