United States Grand Prix (Michael Schumacher wins!)

[Julian Mayo]

I think everyone should take a deep breath. We all come to this forum to enjoy ourselves, not get angry at each other..

Awww, not even a itty teeny wee bit?

[Julian Mayo]

I always hear how F-1 is the greatest racing in the world with the best drivers. Well since I was so impressed with the U.S Grand Prix I thought I'd share a couple thoughts:

1) Why was Ralf sitting out the race, had he soiled all the underwear he had on the trip?

2) In racing you come prepared to race and don't continue to talk about the MASSIVE 9 degree banking in turn 13.

3) Did Michelin forget about that MASSIVE 9 degree banking from previous years? It's been there since 1909.

4) Did anyone consider the tires letting go were both on the same team? Was there a setup adjustment that could have been changed? Or are these cars so controlled by computers that set up is a thing of the past? Seems like the drivers need only to worry about the steering wheel and the push button tranny. Everything else is controlled by the latest from Dell. (Open the pod bay doors HAL)

5) Why did NASCAR'S Jeff Gordon match Jaun Pablo Montoya's laps during a practice session last year at INDY. He had never sat in a Formula 1 car before.

Keep your illusions up F-1 fans, yea, your series is the greatest. I doubt you'll see the Indy Motor Speedway again and most race fans in the U.S. won't care.

Just in case you didn't notice, this is a site for F1 fans. If all you are doing is saying how bad F1 is and how good american racing is then maybe you might look at a more open forum. But welcome anyway.

Yeah, we don't need fans of other racing to tell us how bad F1 is.

[Bundy]

I have been away for the lasrt week & couldn't get to a computer (she who controls my life wouldn't allow it).

US GP - What a JOKE!!!

Who do we blame - Michelin & their teams I say

Its not Ferrari/Bridgestones fault that the other teams don't have satisfactory equipment. Why should they then allow them a sporting chance in the race. When the FIA suggested they would monitor the speeds of the Michelin teams in the offending corner & penalise offenders the Michelin teams agreed only if Ferrari/Bridgestone were handicapped as well.

Why should Ferrari/Bridgestone be handicapped when they were able to produce satisfactory equipment for the race?

If they were willing to forgo championship points or start behind the 6 Bridgestone drivers why not accept having your speed limited in the corner?

To me, Michelin & their teams got caught out & have brought the sport into disrepute.


For me, any solution whereby all the teams could have raced were acceptable BUT Ferrari, Jordan and Minardi should not have been subject to the same requirements as they all had satisfactory equipment for the race & track.

Michelin teams were not prepared for the race

[Graham Ross]

I have been away for the lasrt week & couldn't get to a computer (she who controls my life wouldn't allow it).

You are not alone

US GP - What a JOKE!!!

Who do we blame - Michelin & their teams I say

Its not Ferrari/Bridgestones fault that the other teams don't have satisfactory equipment. Why should they then allow them a sporting chance in the race. When the FIA suggested they would monitor the speeds of the Michelin teams in the offending corner & penalise offenders the Michelin teams agreed only if Ferrari/Bridgestone were handicapped as well.

Why should Ferrari/Bridgestone be handicapped when they were able to produce satisfactory equipment for the race?

If they were willing to forgo championship points or start behind the 6 Bridgestone drivers why not accept having your speed limited in the corner?

To me, Michelin & their teams got caught out & have brought the sport into disrepute.


For me, any solution whereby all the teams could have raced were acceptable BUT Ferrari, Jordan and Minardi should not have been subject to the same requirements as they all had satisfactory equipment for the race & track.

Michelin teams were not prepared for the race

Yes Michelin got caught out, their teams didn't but that doesn't mean they brought the sport into disrepute. Are you saying they aren't allowed to make a mistake ? Are they supposed to be perfect ? They nearly are, they won 8 of 8 before this one

A team suffers an unexplainable suspension failure and the team decides to withdraw, would you blame them ? It happened before many times. I remember a number of teams pulling out due to technical issues.

This time it was 14 cars affected and not just 2 so for the sake of the fans they should have come up with a compromise for a race that doesn't count towards the championship and the Bridgestone teams given points according to how they qualified maybe but not a non event where the Michelins have to pit every 10 laps or limit the top speed. Watching a McLaren passing a Jordan in the infield only to be passed on the straight. That would have been a joke too!

[Bundy]

Yes Michelin got caught out, their teams didn't but that doesn't mean they brought the sport into disrepute. Are you saying they aren't allowed to make a mistake ? Are they supposed to be perfect ? They nearly are, they won 8 of 8 before this one

They brought the sport into disrepute by not agreeing to race with a restricted speed at that corner....They could have raced!!!!

Albeit with a handicap BUT they had the wrong equipment. To me they boycotted the race because the FIA wouldn't penalise Ferrari as well even though they had safe and suitable tyres.

They could have raced!!!!

[Graham Ross]

They brought the sport into disrepute by not agreeing to race with a restricted speed at that corner....They could have raced!!!!

Albeit with a handicap BUT they had the wrong equipment. To me they boycotted the race because the FIA wouldn't penalise Ferrari as well even though they had safe and suitable tyres.

They could have raced!!!!

And they would have a speed trap to see if any of the cars exceeded that speed and penalise them with a drive thru ? and you call it a race. Not racing was better.

Even if that was possible, what is the point of racing if you know you are handicapped ?

For the sake of the fans it could have been made a race but politics didn't allow it and the damage was done.

[Byron Forbes]

Some of the people posting in here are so clueless that they're unaware that the track was resurfaced just b4 the Indy 500. The IRL run Firestone tyres exclusively and so Firestone passed all data onto Bridgestone, there sister company. Michelin's tyre problems are a direct result of this - the resurfacing in T13 has made the track drastically different from previous years.

See here - http://newsonf1.net/2005/news/06/jun15br.htm

Hisao Suganuma, Technical Manager, said: ?The Indianapolis formula one circuit is quite unique with its high speed oval section followed by a very low speed infield section. At the end of the main straight, cars reach nearly 350km/hr, making heat durability a key issue at Indianapolis. The infield, however, has a series of tight corners which slow the cars down significantly. The whole track has a relatively smooth surface and therefore needs compounds from the softer end of the scale to be competitive. Sections of the circuit have been resurfaced since last year but have been ?diamond ground? to avoid any change in the nature of the track. This has been confirmed by our colleagues at Bridgestone/Firestone North America who have extensive experience of this circuit having recently completed a successful Indy 500. The high speed sections of the circuit, however, can cause high tyre wear so we shall need to think carefully about wear durability. Good grip and wear balance will also be necessary.?

I have heard that this "diamond ground" process has caused the problem.

For me, it comes down to this -

Did Bridgestone get information from Firestone from the Indy 500 that enabled them to avoid being in the same boat as Michelin. If they did, and they failed to share this priveleged and lucky information with Michelin, then Bridgestone are as guilty as sin, probably legally as well. In this case they have stood back and watched on as the Michelin runners walked into a dangerous situation that they knew they wouldn't be aware of. That would be something like wreckless criminal neglect I'd imagine.

Of course, if there is no truth in the above, then Michelin have simply made fools of themselves. In fact, it would need to be a very odd track condition indeed for Michelin to be anything other than hopeless.

Will we ever know?

Imo, all proposals/suggestions by the FIA were idiotic reguardless.

[Kapel]

Did Bridgestone get information from Firestone from the Indy 500 that enabled them to avoid being in the same boat as Michelin. If they did, and they failed to share this priveleged and lucky information with Michelin, then Bridgestone are as guilty as sin, probably legally as well. In this case they have stood back and watched on as the Michelin runners walked into a dangerous situation that they knew they wouldn't be aware of. That would be something like wreckless criminal neglect I'd imagine.

Hey Byron,
I've said this earlier & would like to repeat it for u again.

Even if bridgestone has info on the resurfaced track why does anyone expect them to share it with a competitor.Does Michelin share their info as to y they have a superior tyre this season???
I guess not

Everyteam has some additional info on a particular track than their competitor,who shares it??? Can i please know??

I read somewhere (in this forum)that Massa & Davidson were sent to test the resurfaced track for Michelin.

Very easy for u to say,its a criminal offence by Bridgestone for not sharing the info,I would say its a criminal offence by Michelin to bring unsafe tyres to a track.
Mayb Ralf should think of suing Michelin

[Byron Forbes]

Even if bridgestone has info on the resurfaced track why does anyone expect them to share it with a competitor.Does Michelin share their info as to y they have a superior tyre this season???
I guess not

Everyteam has some additional info on a particular track than their competitor,who shares it??? Can i please know??

So then, had Ralph (or any Michelin runner) been killed or seriously injured, and this could have been prevented by Bridgestone making out of the ordinary information available to Michelin in the name of safety, that you'd be ok with that? If so, then you're ... [EDITED]

I read somewhere (in this forum)that Massa & Davidson were sent to test the resurfaced track for Michelin.

This is a good point. I noticed that too but I wonder if anything else has been done to the track in the interim. And I wonder why this problem seemingly never surfaced then. Anyway, I look forward to the next week or so to see how Michelin respond to the condemnation they've recieved thus far. I guess if they take it lying down then it really was all their own fault anyway.

[Julian Mayo]

Even if bridgestone has info on the resurfaced track why does anyone expect them to share it with a competitor.Does Michelin share their info as to y they have a superior tyre this season???
I guess not

Everyteam has some additional info on a particular track than their competitor,who shares it??? Can i please know??

So then, had Ralph (or any Michelin runner) been killed or seriously injured, and this could have been prevented by Bridgestone making out of the ordinary information available to Michelin in the name of safety, that you'd be ok with that? If so, then you're ....

I read somewhere (in this forum)that Massa & Davidson were sent to test the resurfaced track for Michelin.

This is a good point. I noticed that too but I wonder if anything else has been done to the track in the interim. And I wonder why this problem seemingly never surfaced then. Anyway, I look forward to the next week or so to see how Michelin respond to the condemnation they've recieved thus far. I guess if they take it lying down then it really was all their own fault anyway.

Byron,
moderation will work in your favour. People might even take note of what you post, they don't for mine. I would suggest you don't post any descriptive phrases that might cause offence. My yardstick is never post something I wouldn't say to their faces. And I am not tiny

[Byron Forbes]

Byron,
moderation will work in your favour. People might even take note of what you post, they don't for mine. I would suggest you don't post any descriptive phrases that might cause offence. My yardstick is never post something I wouldn't say to their faces. And I am not tiny

So now you're questioning my courage? It's interesting to see the way some people react to facts they don't like. I assure you I have no problem with saying things to peoples faces, and then some buddy. If you think there's nothing offensive about implying it's ok to keep imformation for yourself at the expense of the physical well being of others, then you're .... too. If you'd like me to say that to your face then pop around and i'll gladly oblige!

As for you not being tiny, I simply wonder ... [EDITED]

[Bundy]

maaate, calm down......i'm sure Julian was only pointing out that those that get a bit over heated get their post edited and a stern warning that if they continue they will get booted.

you are not right. mind you, you are not wrong either. what you are expressing is your opinion and the rest of us are allowed ours as well even if they differ from yours.

thats the price of freedom of speech!!!

[Ed]

Everyone, please lets not throw insults at each other.

All of us have our strong views on what happened in the USA. We should all respect each others opinion but try not to force our opinion nor throw insults at others.

I would also remind those who haven't read the posting guidelines to read them.

[Bundy]

[Byron Forbes]

Btw, has anyone got a link to some sort of page reguarding the testing that apparently took place at Indy by Davidson and Massa - had a bit of a look around here and did a bit of googling but nothing so far.