San Marino Results (BAR Penalised - Won't Appeal!)

K-D · Post by **K-D** » Wed May 04, 2005 9:15 pm

julian mayo wrote:....
I suspect a lot of the "anti" ferrari feeling will die out when Schuey retires.,

Will reflect more on "Fans" than it will on ferrari and Micha<el Schumacher.

:weird:

sgd · Post by **sgd** » Wed May 04, 2005 10:49 pm

Ed wrote:....

There are so many rumours around you'd be excused to think BAR Honda may be thrown out of the championship. Let me tell you that is all absolute rubbish.

The car in question is Button's car and not Sato's car. They'll either clear it or decide on a penalty which usually in the case of a car being underweight is disqualification. Matter closed. Sato result isn't under question in this case.
Think about it, had the stewards found something illegal on Button's car why would they give it the all clear.

We'll know next Wednesday but I'd be surprised if Button's car is disqualified.

So YOU SHOULD BE very surprised...
---
will be ineteresting to see how all this ends....
sad for Bar, Button, buttons-fans, Sato & Sato'fans...
rules are rules... (sad & bad that they are not the same for all in practice... you know what i mean

)

Ed · Post by Ed » Wed May 04, 2005 11:13 pm

Let's wait and see what the judges decide.

The FIA want to disqualify BAR if the judges find them to be guilty of running an underweight car. I can only guess that they have information that proves BAR intentionally did this.
At the same time, I would imagine BAR's defense would show that what they are doing is within the rules.

The FIA Technical delegate has admitted that the FIA knows about the 'so called hidden' tank so from that point BAR are not cheating.

The issue of the car having the potential to run underweight will be the main point I think.

sgd · Post by **sgd** » Wed May 04, 2005 11:16 pm

Ed wrote:Let's wait and see what the judges decide.

it's today to happen, right?

sgd · Post by **sgd** » Wed May 04, 2005 11:19 pm

grandprixdiary wrote:All the excitement is too much for me - I'm off to the pub for an hour or so, hoping that when I come back BAR have managed to get themselves out of this mess...

Rob

yeah... FIA asking to "exclude the BAR team from the world championship" is quite hard-core...

Ed · Post by Ed » Wed May 04, 2005 11:35 pm

sgd wrote:
Ed wrote:Let's wait and see what the judges decide.
it's today to happen, right?

The decision is expected Thursday afternoon.

Latest on the hearing:

BAR Lawyer

There was no secret chamber in this engine. At worst, there was a minor misunderstanding. A modest fine would suffice

BAR's Geoffery Willis

At no time would I allow anybody in the team to do anything illegal, we have a common culture of integrity and fairness

General Secretary of the FIA

A flexible fuel compartment allows a car to stay out for two or three laps when a legitimate car would have to pit.
This enables cars to complete more laps than a genuine 600kg car

sgd · Post by **sgd** » Wed May 04, 2005 11:52 pm

great info-coverage! thx!!

Ed · Post by Ed » Thu May 05, 2005 7:20 am

Latest:
Bernie Ecclestone

With the information that's available, you have to assume they'll be found guilty. There's always a reason for these things - it's never a mistake.

Bernie doesn't beleive a fine would be a sufficient detterent

If you can do that, why doesn't a team at the beginning of the season give over a cheque and say 'If I'm caught, cash the cheque'?

There are a million things you could do.

I suppose if they are not excluded from the championship you could say the constructor cannot score points in the championship and maybe the driver is excluded from the points he has now and all the other ones count

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Thu May 05, 2005 7:24 am

Ed wrote:Latest:
Bernie Ecclestone
With the information that's available, you have to assume they'll be found guilty. There's always a reason for these things - it's never a mistake.
Bernie doesn't beleive a fine would be a sufficient detterent
If you can do that, why doesn't a team at the beginning of the season give over a cheque and say 'If I'm caught, cash the cheque'?

There are a million things you could do.

I suppose if they are not excluded from the championship you could say the constructor cannot score points in the championship and maybe the driver is excluded from the points he has now and all the other ones count

Good old Bernie.......Bar are guilty til (if) found innocent

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Thu May 05, 2005 7:36 am

Alonso has been quoted in "Racing- live.com" saying " there are two teams that cheat,BAR and Ferrari."

Graham Ross · Post by **Graham Ross** » Thu May 05, 2005 1:57 pm

After reading a lot of articles on this issue, it appears that BAR have interpreted the minimum weight differently from how the FIA interpret it. The flaw yet again is the poorly written regulations.

The collecter was and is legal and it seems other teams use similar systems.
The car according to BAR cannot run without 6 kilos of fuel and that makes it above the 600 kg min.

I can't see how BAR could be thrown out or even have points deducted. I assume that they would be appeal if that were the case.

The most important thing that should come out of this is forcing the FIA to make the techincal regulations much clearer.

On the other hand I feel that BAR should be penalised simply because they seem to push everything to the absolute limit when it comes to interpreting rules. Just like when they retired their cars in Australia. Several other teams could have but didn't. (Then the FIA amended the rule)

Kapel · Post by **Kapel** » Thu May 05, 2005 2:32 pm

julian mayo wrote:Alonso has been quoted in "Racing- live.com" saying " there are two teams that cheat,BAR and Ferrari."

Alonso mentioned in contest to Ferrari testing beyond 30 days agreement as cheating.

Oh come on Alonso!!!! Ferrari had broken the agreement before the season started....Ur leading the championship,ur the man to beat,just chill n dont worry about Ferrari's pace

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Thu May 05, 2005 3:05 pm

Kapel wrote:
julian mayo wrote:Alonso has been quoted in "Racing- live.com" saying " there are two teams that cheat,BAR and Ferrari."
Alonso mentioned in contest to Ferrari testing beyond 30 days agreement as cheating.

Oh come on Alonso!!!! Ferrari had broken the agreement before the season started....Ur leading the championship,ur the man to beat,just chill n dont worry about Ferrari's pace

I did not have the time to read it in full ( bloody kids) But I think you are correct , and he was referring to Ferrari testing. I t can hardly be cheating if a team says stick your testing limits, we will do what we want. Arrogant, unsporting, unfair to the minor teams in particular, but not cheating

Kapel · Post by **Kapel** » Thu May 05, 2005 3:22 pm

Ah the kids!!!

Well the gentlemen agreement has been broken unofficially anyways by 2 teams from the "group of nine".Are they cheating too???

I cant understand y Alonso,whose sitting comfortably in the championship

, is losing his cool????

Has Imola-Schumi-Ferrari affected his confidence??

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Thu May 05, 2005 3:39 pm

Kapel wrote:Ah the kids!!!

Well the gentlemen agreement has been broken unofficially anyways by 2 teams from the "group of nine".Are they cheating too???

I cant understand y Alonso,whose sitting comfortably in the championship , is losing his cool????

Has Imola-Schumi-Ferrari affected his confidence??

Or he is playing mind games with JB, and Schuey
Imola must have built up his confidence

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