Thoughts on the Monaco Grand Prix

[Julian Mayo]

I thought I already explained whom he made a lap up on, but obviously you and I did not see the same race, or did you not see the race??

And I just explained how he caught up with those ahead. When there is a train of cars moving slowly, you'll easily make up the time. Nothing special to brag about.

Just like how the 2 Williams caught up with Alonso 3 laps after they made a pit stop. Something like 20 or so seconds in 3 laps. WOW

The F1 race winners here would have done the same thing

Only Queeker, senor ariba, ariba,

[F1greyhound]

Graham, probably youre right, Michael does nothing special on the track. Your favoured JPM does great things on the other side. Actually hard to understand why Michael could pull off all these victories, probably he wouldnt have won anything without Rubens pulling over....

One question, where would have Michael possibly ended up in Monaco without the loss of 1 lap on the drivers in front of him

You are extremely fair on Rubens as well, but unfortunately for those being objective it is pretty obvious that he is at least as good as JPM for example.
There is an edge for Michael(10), Kimi and Fernando(9.5 both) over the other drivers but Rubens(9) may well be the No.4 among the current F1 drivers even if it doesnt look good for him so far this year.

[Graham Ross]

Graham, probably youre right, Michael does nothing special on the track. Your favoured JPM does great things on the other side. Actually hard to understand why Michael could pull off all these victories, probably he wouldnt have won anything without Rubens pulling over....

One question, where would have Michael possibly ended up in Monaco without the loss of 1 lap on the drivers in front of him

You are extremely fair on Rubens as well, but unfortunately for those being objective it is pretty obvious that he is at least as good as JPM for example.
There is an edge for Michael(10), Kimi and Fernando(9.5 both) over the other drivers but Rubens(9) may well be the No.4 among the current F1 drivers even if it doesnt look good for him so far this year.

Hey F1greyhound,

All I am saying is the Michael did nothing special on this occassion. When Michael drives a good race I will say so. In Monaco, he didn't do anything special.

Had he not been a lap down on Raikkonen he would have joined the train of cars behind Fisichella earlier.

Don't know why you are bagging JPM but he did a superb job moving from 16th at the start to 5th at the end overtaking a number of cars on the track (not the kind that yields!)

Ralf too did a superb job (and I don't rate Ralf highly but in Monaco he did a superb job). Starting 17th I think and finishing 6th.

Michael, well I think he started 8th and finished 8th (sorry 7th) despite 3 drivers ahead finishing behind due to problems. So in effect he went backwards.
I repeat nothing special with that.

[F1greyhound]

Graham,

I did in no way bag JPM, just wondered why you would rate him so highly while "neutralizing" Michael.

Juan Pablo drove a decent race but he profited a lot from the queuing you mentioned. However I felt he should have passed Fernando just like the 2 WILLIAMS did.

Before his accident Michael was in front of Juan Pablo who managed to pass the MINARDIS(fair effort) and JORDANS(fair effort) plus Rubens(credit for this) after the start and barring his front wing having to be changed I cant see where JPM would have passed Michael.

Michael then came from 13th and a full lap down to finish 7th, almost passing Ralf. His best lap was 1.8 sec faster than that of JPM and except a supreme Kimi it was rather Michael than anyone else who delivered the strongest drive.

Interesting to see there were no comments on JPMs incident which put him back on the grid, if Michael had done that we would have seen 100 posts on it, incl. some conspiracy of FERRARI trying to eliminate the opposition.....

CHEERS!

[Julian Mayo]

Graham,

I did in no way bag JPM, just wondered why you would rate him so highly while "neutralizing" Michael.

Juan Pablo drove a decent race but he profited a lot from the queuing you mentioned. However I felt he should have passed Fernando just like the 2 WILLIAMS did.

Before his accident Michael was in front of Juan Pablo who managed to pass the MINARDIS(fair effort) and JORDANS(fair effort) plus Rubens(credit for this) after the start and barring his front wing having to be changed I cant see where JPM would have passed Michael.

Michael then came from 13th and a full lap down to finish 7th, almost passing Ralf. His best lap was 1.8 sec faster than that of JPM and except a supreme Kimi it was rather Michael than anyone else who delivered the strongest drive.

Interesting to see there were no comments on JPMs incident which put him back on the grid, if Michael had done that we would have seen 100 posts on it, incl. some conspiracy of FERRARI trying to eliminate the opposition.....

CHEERS!

F1G
By the time we heard about JPM brake testing, over here, it was old news elsewhere. The press reports on what JV and DC had to say pretty well summed it up for me, the guy is a dangerous idiot, IF that is what he meant to do

[K-D]

I will call it context then.

What I saw was:

Lap 28 ? First free lap after the Safety Car period.

Next 20 laps fastest lap was shared:

Lap # 28 ? MS
Lap # 29 ? MS
Lap # 30 ? MS
Lap # 31 ? KR ? MS second fastest
Lap # 32 ? KR ? MS second fastest
Lap # 33 ? KR ? MS second fastest
Lap # 34 ? KR ? MS second fastest ? Would have been third fastest
Lap # 35 ? KR ? MS second fastest ? Would have been third fastest
Lap # 36 ? KR ? MS second fastest ? Would have been third fastest
Lap # 37 ? KR ? MS second fastest
Lap # 38 ? MS
Lap # 39 ? MS
Lap # 40 ? MS
Lap # 41 ? MS
Lap # 42 ? MS ? KR pits
Lap # 43 ? MS
Lap # 44 ? MS
Lap # 45 ? MS
Lap # 46 ? MS
Lap # 47 ? MS

There is a difference between driving fast, and the ?ease? of driving fast. And the matter of being the fastest driver on track. I agree that we do not know how fast KR could have been.

[sgd]

...the guy is a dangerous idiot, IF that is what he meant to do ...

and you blame me for saiyn "blind"???

Please! I understand MS fans will always say that his teammate is a superb driver, but in rality, le lst years Rubens has done pretty average... not in the top level, for sure.

LET 1 PERSON NON-MS FAN SAY Rubens is in the top 4 Right now, F1-2005, a non-MS fan will NEVER include Rubens (also exclude brasilians and Rubens fans...)

Better that rubens are:
1.Alonso
2.Kimi
3.Webber
4.NH
5.JPM
6.MS
7.Button(?)
8.Fisichella(?)
....
....

I repeat he maybe WAS a good driver, now his a well paid looser.

If RB did a lot of points in the Champ. was just because he had the BEST car out there, so it's not argument!!

...the guy is a dangerous idiot, IF that is what he meant to do ...

What if I'd said: "A person must be a dangerous idiot IF says things like "the guy is a dangerous idiot, IF that is what he meant to do" ??

What if I'd said, "A person must be a dangerous idiot IF say RB is in the top 4 in F1-2005"????

I just said blind and received protests, now you say that and it's all ok just because it's not against MR, RB or Ferrari or Webber???

[K-D]

..

LET 1 PERSON NON-MS FAN SAY Rubens is in the top 4 Right now, F1-2005, a non-MS fan will NEVER include Rubens (also exclude brasilians and Rubens fans...)

Better that rubens are:
1.Alonso
2.Kimi
3.Webber
4.NH
5.JPM
6.MS
7.Button(?)
8.Fisichella(?)
....
....

I repeat he maybe WAS a good driver, now his a well paid looser.

If RB did a lot of points in the Champ. was just because he had the BEST car out there, so it's not argument!!


..

I am a MS fan, so not qualified to answer you question, but your ranking is not correct.

Better than Rubens are:

Alonso, Juan Pablo, Kimi, Michael

No-one else are BETTER than Rubens, a number are equally good.

[sgd]

I will call it context then.

What I saw was:

Lap 28 ? First free lap after the Safety Car period.

Next 20 laps fastest lap was shared:

Lap # 28 ? MS
Lap # 29 ? MS
Lap # 30 ? MS
Lap # 31 ? KR ? MS second fastest
Lap # 32 ? KR ? MS second fastest
Lap # 33 ? KR ? MS second fastest
Lap # 34 ? KR ? MS second fastest ? Would have been third fastest
Lap # 35 ? KR ? MS second fastest ? Would have been third fastest
Lap # 36 ? KR ? MS second fastest ? Would have been third fastest
Lap # 37 ? KR ? MS second fastest
Lap # 38 ? MS
Lap # 39 ? MS
Lap # 40 ? MS
Lap # 41 ? MS
Lap # 42 ? MS ? KR pits
Lap # 43 ? MS
Lap # 44 ? MS
Lap # 45 ? MS
Lap # 46 ? MS
Lap # 47 ? MS

There is a difference between driving fast, and the ?ease? of driving fast. And the matter of being the fastest driver on track. I agree that we do not know how fast KR could have been.

Oh man!!!!! but that was not the race!!!! that are numbers!!!!!!!

In the real race, ALL the other drivers were stuck behind ULTRA-SLOW-SLOW-SLOW Renaults!!!!!! and KIMI didn't need to go fast!!!!

while MS had clean air.... and just catched the others because he was THE ONLY driver who couldn't react fast enough to albers' spin!!!! that is the truth, ALL the divers were in train, all VERY near the next and MS was the ONLY DRIVER which crashed because of his SLOW reaction!!!

What happened after lap 47?????????????????
why MS began at lap 28????????????????:lol:

HAHHAhHAhHAh

this is just nonsense!!!!

I GIVE UP!

Looks like be MS-fan is something like a psychological feature....
and as consecuence .....

I'll be thinking of you when MS crashed-out this weekend!! or finish with an other GREAT drive in 8th or 9th.


POST EDITED BY MODERATOR

[sgd]

Juan Pablo drove a decent race but he profited a lot from the queuing you mentioned. However I felt he should have passed Fernando just like the 2 WILLIAMS did.Before his accident Michael was in front of Juan Pablo who managed to pass the MINARDIS(fair effort) and JORDANS(fair effort) plus Rubens(credit for this) after the start and barring his front wing having to be changed I cant see where JPM would have passed Michael.

He also passed Massa ON TRACK and CLEAN!
He was the one pushed Trulli to make the move on Fisichella (see the recorded video).

Michael had not an accident, that was just a SLOW reaction, ALL the other drivers, which were all VERY close to each other, braked on time (F1 driver reactions are good, but not for all... maybe soem ones are getting SLOW-OLD? i don't know... but seems... HAhAHa)

HATE ME!!!!!!!!

"A Blind-MS-fan, would and certanly will at one point HATE me it cannot be otherwise" sgd.

Why? wouldn't a little girl hate someone who says that his daddy is not the best? I think is a good analogy.

[sgd]

I am a MS fan, so not qualified to answer you question, but your ranking is not correct.

Better than Rubens are:

Alonso, Juan Pablo, Kimi, Michael

No-one else are BETTER than Rubens, a number are equally good.

Indeed that is my Top 4 as well!!!
we agree again!!


For me is difficult to decide who is the 5th, who is yours???
I'll for a POLL...

[K-D]

...


Oh man!!!!! but that was not the race!!!! that are numbers!!!!!!!

In the real race, ALL the other drivers were stuck behind ULTRA-SLOW-SLOW-SLOW Renaults!!!!!! and KIMI didn't need to go fast!!!!

while MS had clean air.... and just catched the others because he was THE ONLY driver who couldn't react fast enough to albers' spin!!!! that is the truth, ALL the divers were in train, all VERY near the next and MS was the ONLY OLD PIG which crashed because of his SLOW reaction!!!

No he did not have clean air. Look again:

Lap # 28 ? MS
Lap # 29 ? MS
Lap # 30 ? MS
Lap # 31 ? KR ? MS second fastest
Lap # 32 ? KR ? MS second fastest
Lap # 33 ? KR ? MS second fastest
Lap # 34 ? KR ? MS second fastest ? Would have been third fastest
Lap # 35 ? KR ? MS second fastest ? Would have been third fastest
Lap # 36 ? KR ? MS second fastest ? Would have been third fastest
Lap # 37 ? KR ? MS second fastest
Lap # 38 ? MS
Lap # 39 ? MS
Lap # 40 ? MS
Lap # 41 ? MS
Lap # 42 ? MS ? KR pits

From 43 and onwards he was no longer behind Kimi, but at that time he had caught up with the other drivers on track, so no clean air there either. He still had 1 stop to make, I can find all the other lap times, but that seem to be an effort of futility.

Since when I post facts, you chose to explain them away.

...
What happened after lap 47?????????????????
why MS began at lap 28????????????????:lol:

HAHHAhHAhHAh

this is just nonsense!!!!

I GIVE UP!

Looks like be MS-fan is something like a psychological feature....
and as consecuence you become blind, deaf and dumb.

I'll be thinking of you when MS crashed-out this weekend!! or finish with an other GREAT drive in 8th or 9th.

After lap 47 he:

1) Was in traffic.
2) Made a pitstop
3) Had at least 5 more fastest lap
4) Had at least 3 more second fastest lap.

So with a grand total of 78 laps, from the time the Safety car wen into the pits again on lap 28 he was either fastest or second fastest on at least 28 laps.

The pitstop will have an in-lap and an out-lap, which will both be relatively slow, that mean in 30 of the remaining 58 laps he gained a full lap on the field. He was 37 seconds behind Kimi at the end, so he gained 40 seconds on Kimi in the 30 laps between Kimi's one stop, and the end, and in that period Michael did one more stop as well.

I am not making any of this up, as I continue to write you are all welcome to disagree with me on the level of talent that Michael Schumacher has as a f1 driver, but you really should try refute me with facts, rather than your emotional babbling.

[sgd]

Ok I will explain you (K-D) again...
MS diod all those fast laps in that period of time because he was the ONLY driver not affected by ULTRA-SLOW Renaults... and had to catch up the others after his crash into DC. When you are the ONLY driver without a car lapping 4secs off pace in front of you and which you cannot overtake(because of monacu nature), it is not strange you will be the faster driver on track. (+Kimi who didn't have to push, but as he hadn't the traffic neither, so he was the 2nd faster...)
Read Graham post, is the same i say basically, i can't inderstand why you still say that those times mean MS did something great.
I'm not saying that he is not good driver, or that he is not able to do good races (Imola was a good drive from him), I just say that you have to understand the "why" of those times...Monaco was an average drive from him and a slow-reaction error (crashe into DC) cost a lot to him...

[sgd]

...but you really should try refute me with facts, rather than your emotional babbling...

I in fact try but you only ignore my arguments selectively...
after all seems I write more for me and for those who read this but you...
You seem to look at the faces i put and not to the arguments I put.
But it's ok. for me the important point is the oportunity to talk out what i think. (as loud as I could, juast as you do) but try to listen to other's arguments more please!

[Julian Mayo]

...the guy is a dangerous idiot, IF that is what he meant to do ...

and you blame me for saiyn "blind"???

Please! I understand MS fans will always say that his teammate is a superb driver, but in rality, le lst years Rubens has done pretty average... not in the top level, for sure.

LET 1 PERSON NON-MS FAN SAY Rubens is in the top 4 Right now, F1-2005, a non-MS fan will NEVER include Rubens (also exclude brasilians and Rubens fans...)

Better that rubens are:
1.Alonso
2.Kimi
3.Webber
4.NH
5.JPM
6.MS
7.Button(?)
8.Fisichella(?)
....
....

I repeat he maybe WAS a good driver, now his a well paid looser.

If RB did a lot of points in the Champ. was just because he had the BEST car out there, so it's not argument!!

...the guy is a dangerous idiot, IF that is what he meant to do ...

What if I'd said: "A person must be a dangerous idiot IF says things like "the guy is a dangerous idiot, IF that is what he meant to do" ??

What if I'd said, "A person must be a dangerous idiot IF say RB is in the top 4 in F1-2005"????

I just said blind and received protests, now you say that and it's all ok just because it's not against MR, RB or Ferrari or Webber???

SGD, I will say this very gently. The "dangerous idiot" reference was about JPM