Michael's incident during qualifying (Monaco GP)

[GhoGho]

Yeah,

but the anti-Michael(or Ferrari) group gets more confused each time ))

I get confused at the bar

[JayVee]

Yeah,

but the anti-Michael(or Ferrari) group gets more confused each time ))

The qualifying and engine rules aren't well explained and thanks Ed for clarifying. They certainly make a lot more sense.

But F1greyhound, please go vent your frustration at Michael's tactics on something else! You have accused the FIA of being heavy handed on Michael Schumacher because of some weird unheard of conspiracy theory that you haven't even stated and I did point to you that Montoya had a very similar penalty last year and I don't recall reading any post from you on that matter
Naturally you ignored that. I also asked for the hundreds of incidents you claim that happened in the past and went unnoticed and you came up with 0 so far!!
Still you continue blaming this penalty as the reason for Michael losing the championship which is obvious rubbish and I pointed out to you that he stacked it in Melbourne. His fault, no penalty, no excuse so if you want to blame something for Michael losing the championship, you can blame him, yes him or your Michael.
Yet you still complain about drivers not being penalised for blocking. Well (and as Ed mentioned earlier) Villeneuve was penalised just two races ago.

If Michael has been getting away with dirty tricks in the past, I sure hope that he won't be and it seems that you have just gotten so used to Michael's dirty tricks that it is so normal for him yet unfair when anyone else does it.

And I remind you that rather than complain, you should thank MW, KR, JT and CK and their teams for helping Michael score points in Monaco.

For a list of controversial incidents that Michael was involved in, check out this page on the BBC website http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsp ... 024532.stm
And after you go through it, perhaps you can come up with other drivers who have made anywhere near that many ?

Get over it cause let me tell you that Michael will lose the Championship by way more than 5 points

[Snowy]

In addition to Giancarlo Fisichella who was penalised at the Monaco Grand Prix for blocking, at the European Grand Prix, Jacques Villeneuve was penalised for blocking Giancarlo Fisichella.

Keep in mind that this is the first season in many years that we have cars fighting for grid spots in qualifying at the same time. For the past few years it was single lap, (almost) single car qualifying so the FIA are trying to ensure drivers do give way when they are on in or out laps to drivers who are on hot laps.
Some drivers will still get away with it, the system isn't perfect but the drivers will get the message and we will see fewer blocking incidents (at least that is what one would hope )

With this in mind it seems quite cruel that you could in avoiding being penalized for not pulling over for a guy on a hot lap you duck under the time allowed to get your fuel credit for that lap. However you dice it the rules are the work of insane desk jockeys with delusions of Grand Prix!

[F1greyhound]

JAYVEE,

sorry if I hurt your feelings, wasnt intended. My last post was only very slightly sarcastic which I enjoy sometimes especially if I read brainless comments.

Re.100s of cases where one driver blocked one or more other cars in qualifying? Look up any race before the solo qualiying began, 2-5 cases each time. How many were intentional? How often did the FIA investigate on that and put the guy to the back of the grid without real evidence?

Re. FIA that is not a conspiracy theory, and obviously they might even not have noticed the effect, but the decision to put MICHAEL to the back might well have terminated his chances for 2006 WDC. I didnt question that his move should have been penalized though.

I could also state that KIMIs car breakdown ended his chances for this year finally, and in his case the FIA has really nothing to do with it.

Im not interested in the list you linked as I would expect it to be biased. There are a lot of people out there who cant swallow MICHAELs supremacy and love to put him in a bad light. Im not interested in this as Im aware he is just human. He makes occasional errors, he is not a machine. Whatever really happened on Saturday cannot be proven, he was penalized, too hard imo, but thats history now.

And before you argue Im a bit biased, yes I am because I love F1 and the best drivers incl. MICHAEL, FERNANDO, KIMI, JENSON, RUBENS etc. I can have a good word on each of them without slamming another.

And I would love to see a great fight for the crown untill the end, and a decision on the track. And I dont mean by technical failures.

All the best, enjoy for now as there might be a serie of MICHAEL wins at hand...)

[backmarker]

I cannot believe that to be a fan of one driver you must hate the others. This is an attitude that I simply cannot fathom and, in the arena of sport, it is most unsportsman-like. Alonso is a worthy champion, as is Schumacher, Senna, Villeneuve, drivers that, for whatever reason, took the title and ended up number 1 that year. They must all be respected, and I simply cannot stand when people "hate" a driver just to support another. Tactics, team orders, aggressiveness, attitude, luck, these are all part of the composition which win championships, like it or not.

[JayVee]

JAYVEE,

sorry if I hurt your feelings, wasnt intended. My last post was only very slightly sarcastic which I enjoy sometimes especially if I read brainless comments.

Re.100s of cases where one driver blocked one or more other cars in qualifying? Look up any race before the solo qualiying began, 2-5 cases each time. How many were intentional? How often did the FIA investigate on that and put the guy to the back of the grid without real evidence?

Re. FIA that is not a conspiracy theory, and obviously they might even not have noticed the effect, but the decision to put MICHAEL to the back might well have terminated his chances for 2006 WDC. I didnt question that his move should have been penalized though.

I could also state that KIMIs car breakdown ended his chances for this year finally, and in his case the FIA has really nothing to do with it.

Im not interested in the list you linked as I would expect it to be biased. There are a lot of people out there who cant swallow MICHAELs supremacy and love to put him in a bad light. Im not interested in this as Im aware he is just human. He makes occasional errors, he is not a machine. Whatever really happened on Saturday cannot be proven, he was penalized, too hard imo, but thats history now.

And before you argue Im a bit biased, yes I am because I love F1 and the best drivers incl. MICHAEL, FERNANDO, KIMI, JENSON, RUBENS etc. I can have a good word on each of them without slamming another.

And I would love to see a great fight for the crown untill the end, and a decision on the track. And I dont mean by technical failures.

All the best, enjoy for now as there might be a serie of MICHAEL wins at hand...)

F1greyhound,

You didn't hurt my feelings. I was just point out to you that dreaming up theories doesn't help your argument. That making Michael look like an innocent driver doesn't wash and making it look like he is targetted is just rubbish.

You have yet to come up with an actual example of those 100's of incidents that go unnoticed. It is easy to generalise.

The BBC is one of the few respected media that remains, otherwise I won't bother with giving the link.
And those are NOT mistakes, they show the dirty tactics Michael plays. Calling them mistakes is just trying to show Michael is innocent and that is rubbish.
He was stripped of his points in 1997, that was because of a mistake right ?

There is Alonso and Raikkonen, give me one (as you call it mistake) they did against another driver ? You can also include Hakkinen. They play fair and that is what I want to see in Formula 1

Supporting a driver that resorts to dirty tactics, suspicous and dubious moves on other drivers just reflects on those supporting him.

Anyone who favours a particular driver will be biased towards that driver. Nothing wrong with that but don't blatantly support that driver's dirty tactics, that reflects on you.

[JayVee]

I cannot believe that to be a fan of one driver you must hate the others. This is an attitude that I simply cannot fathom and, in the arena of sport, it is most unsportsman-like. Alonso is a worthy champion, as is Schumacher, Senna, Villeneuve, drivers that, for whatever reason, took the title and ended up number 1 that year. They must all be respected, and I simply cannot stand when people "hate" a driver just to support another. Tactics, team orders, aggressiveness, attitude, luck, these are all part of the composition which win championships, like it or not.

Agree with everything except that Michael must be respected. His skill could be respected but his unsportsman behaviour, his dirty tricks on the track and his suspicious moves, how on earth do you expect one to respect that ? It is plain wrong
And it isn't just me, with the exception of Ferrari, almost everyone in Formula 1, drivers, teams, ex drivers, fans didn't approve what Michael did neither did they respect him for it. If you think otherwise, you may be living in a different world.

And who is it that hates a driver just to support another ?

[RE30B#16]

The BBC is one of the few respected media that remains, otherwise I won't bother with giving the link.
And those are NOT mistakes, they show the dirty tactics Michael plays. Calling them mistakes is just trying to show Michael is innocent and that is rubbish.
He was stripped of his points in 1997, that was because of a mistake right ?

There is Alonso and Raikkonen, give me one (as you call it mistake) they did against another driver ? You can also include Hakkinen. They play fair and that is what I want to see in Formula 1

Supporting a driver that resorts to dirty tactics, suspicous and dubious moves on other drivers just reflects on those supporting him.

Ah, the strange and interesting case of Michael Schumacher.

You know, I believe Schuey is one of the best in the business right now. I don't believe he is the best that ever was despite the 7 championships. If you take Prost, Senna, Piquet, Lauda, let's say Emerson Fittipaldi in their primes and give them the same competition Michael has had to deal with since the retirements of Hakkinen and Hill, all of them would have been 7 times world champion!

Too bad there is this cloud over his accomplishments. For that, I blame Schuey himself alone. He does not need to do these things to gain advantage. As well both Prost and Senna ruined their respective copybooks with the dubious things they did to each other, but Schumacher is starting to demonstrate that when he is really tested and things are close, he is prone to doing something treacherous to gain advantage no matter who it is. This tendancy pulls him down a few rungs. Would Gilles Villeneuve resort to dirty moves to win? He was a maniacal bastard, but absolutely fair. The same could be said for Rene Arnoux, Ronnie Peterson, Mario Andretti, Alan Jones, or even the cold tactician Niki Lauda.

I believe the penalty was fair. What he did was incredibly dangerous, and that's truly why he was so harshly penalized. Hie pit crew was in his ears the whole time. I don't buy that he just made a mistake. He's way too good for that.

[F1greyhound]

Jeez,

sorry but this is really dumb. How can anyone possibly assume there is a lack of competition among todays drivers. PIQUET was shattered by MICHAEL and quit. LAUDA was a great driver but for sheer pace he wouldnt match neither of todays top 10. There have been slightly stronger years and slightly weaker ones but it cant get much better than MICHAEL, FERNANDO, KIMI, JENSON, JUAN, RUBENS, JAQUES etc... battling it out.

The frappening thing is that MICHAEL is considered the fastest driver for a period of a good 13 years. UNTILL TODAY!!

Sometimes his anti-losing reflex is too strong, and I agree his manoevre last Sat. was SH111TE!(deliberate or not) But give the guy a break, 99 of 100 times he drives a clean and perfect race.

[BlinkyBill]

Jeez,

sorry but this is really dumb. How can anyone possibly assume there is a lack of competition among todays drivers. PIQUET was shattered by MICHAEL and quit. LAUDA was a great driver but for sheer pace he wouldnt match neither of todays top 10. There have been slightly stronger years and slightly weaker ones but it cant get much better than MICHAEL, FERNANDO, KIMI, JENSON, JUAN, RUBENS, JAQUES etc... battling it out.

The frappening thing is that MICHAEL is considered the fastest driver for a period of a good 13 years. UNTILL TODAY!!

Sometimes his anti-losing reflex is too strong, and I agree his manoevre last Sat. was SH111TE!(deliberate or not) But give the guy a break, 99 of 100 times he drives a clean and perfect race.

70 out of 100

[RE30B#16]

Jeez,

sorry but this is really dumb. How can anyone possibly assume there is a lack of competition among todays drivers. PIQUET was shattered by MICHAEL and quit. LAUDA was a great driver but for sheer pace he wouldnt match neither of todays top 10. There have been slightly stronger years and slightly weaker ones but it cant get much better than MICHAEL, FERNANDO, KIMI, JENSON, JUAN, RUBENS, JAQUES etc... battling it out.

The frappening thing is that MICHAEL is considered the fastest driver for a period of a good 13 years. UNTILL TODAY!!

Sometimes his anti-losing reflex is too strong, and I agree his manoevre last Sat. was SH111TE!(deliberate or not) But give the guy a break, 99 of 100 times he drives a clean and perfect race.

Hey Greyhound

Nobody is saying there is a lack of competition. I am saying that Schuey has only had one real competitor on par with him most of his year after he made it to the top. Nelson Piquet was 100 years old when he was partnered with Schumacher, but he probably wouldn't have been blown off had he been in his prime, young and driven. The same can be said for Niki Lauda. Schumacher is not any "faster" than those drivers. Let me remind you that some of the fastest laps ever were turned during the ground effect era (late 70s - early 80s). I believe Keke Rosberg's 1986 Silverstone record is still unbroken. what does that tell us? Nothing.

I don't believe Michael Schumacher is the fastest driver out there. I don't believe he ever was just like Alain Prost was never the straight fastest. Both were very successful though which speaks to something else. They have something called "race craft." They conceive ahead of time what it will take to win the race. They don't just put their foot down and go, like most drivers out there, relying on a fast car to carry them to victory. David Coulthard had some luck help him out at Monaco, but he still finished in front of some faster cars. Why? Race craft.

There have been slightly stronger years and slightly weaker ones but it cant get much better than MICHAEL, FERNANDO, KIMI, JENSON, JUAN, RUBENS, JAQUES etc... battling it out.

Oh yes it can! It can get way better than that. I'm reminded of 1977, 1979, 1982, 1985, 1990. Major competition and many good cars and drivers. In 1982, Keke Rosberg won the championship with a single win!!

[JayVee]

The story of clean and perfect races

238 ... 99 out of 100 ...... lets see

No more than 3 dirty/flawed races ....

(starting with most recent ....)

Monaco 2006
Australia 2006

That's it, you can't have any more dirty and flawed races
Huh ? We've just started
Oh Ok, carry on then

Malaysia 2006

Oh what's wrong with that ?
Huh ? You were beaten by Massa who started from the back. Can't call it perfect and clean can you ?
Oh Ok, carry on then

China 2005
Turkey 2005
Spain 2005
Australia 2005

Hey, that's too many already and I haven't got to the juicy bit
You still think you are 99 out of 100 clean and perfect Huh
How silly

[Julian Mayo]

Dan Knutson reports that Willi Weber, Schueys manager reckons that one of the stewards involved in Schueys penalty was biased.
"The gentleman is Spanish, like Alonso" said Weber, "it was not a good idea to let him judge"
Knudson goes on to say that the only mistake in the incident was Schumaker thinking he could get away with it.

[RE30B#16]

Dan Knutson reports that Willi Weber, Schueys manager reckons that one of the stewards involved in Schueys penalty was biased.
"The gentleman is Spanish, like Alonso" said Weber, "it was not a good idea to let him judge"
Knudson goes on to say that the only mistake in the incident was Schumaker thinking he could get away with it.

What an ignorant remark!! So let's hire race steward only from countries that don't field drivers in the F1 World championship!

Schumacher has been in the center of controversy ever since he pulled that fast one to get out of his Jordan contract a year early!

I agree with Knutson.

[Ed]

The GPDA will be meeting today and among the items on the agenda is Michael's incident at Monaco. Here is what David Coulthard had to say about it:

I believe it will be on the agenda. But, it?s an issue between drivers that?s how I feel it should be handled. Inevitably there?ll be someone who has to say their two pence worth, but they probably won?t say it in front of each other in the meeting. What I hope we can achieve is that all those who were quick to give their opinions to the masses, but won?t look Michael in the eye, I think that?s a lack of a man, and I think we?ll find out tomorrow just who?s prepared to say what around the table.

Q: David, some of your colleagues say Michael Schumacher?s position as president of the GPDA may be under consideration after Monaco. Is that something you think is appropriate?
David Coulthard:

Personally speaking, I don?t, but as a group of drivers though, we have an opportunity to take a vote. Personally were are stronger in our opinions and can influence more the sport today and the future if we are united. Drivers don?t always see eye to eye of course, but the Monaco events should just be taken as they were. Michael got his punishment, and anyone who wants to discuss it can, and then we should get on with the business of driver and track safety.