USA Review - The Heretic

[Julian Mayo]

a Drum would be better,make sure u have a lot of storage space

Kappy, she is a UTE, we just put the drum in the back, n the dawg looks after it while we are having a "tea" or two

AH,now thats sounds interesting Shall arrange some Iced tea for ur visit
But u havent invited me on ur trip yet

Sorry Kappy, I assumed , thought we could take a quick run up to visit your missus near Kashmir or wherever. > I guarantee the enemy tank has not been made to catch us

[Kapel]

Kappy, she is a UTE, we just put the drum in the back, n the dawg looks after it while we are having a "tea" or two

AH,now thats sounds interesting Shall arrange some Iced tea for ur visit
But u havent invited me on ur trip yet

Sorry Kappy, I assumed , thought we could take a quick run up to visit your missus near Kashmir or wherever. > I guarantee the enemy tank has not been made to catch us

Just Kidding dude.
Its not as bad as its potrayed in Kashmir though.But yes a bit risky.
Ofcourse no tanks can catch us i ur UTE
(My missus is here with me nowadays,thankfully) Racing weekend & she needs to choose her picks to beat me

[Julian Mayo]

AH,now thats sounds interesting Shall arrange some Iced tea for ur visit
But u havent invited me on ur trip yet

Sorry Kappy, I assumed , thought we could take a quick run up to visit your missus near Kashmir or wherever. > I guarantee the enemy tank has not been made to catch us

Just Kidding dude.
Its not as bad as its potrayed in Kashmir though.But yes a bit risky.
Ofcourse no tanks can catch us i ur UTE
(My missus is here with me nowadays,thankfully) Racing weekend & she needs to choose her picks to beat me

And the Lord Shiva will ensure that she does!! Why our personal God feels the need to teach us humility on a daily basis, I will wait for JV to explain.

[Byron Forbes]

Whilst the idea of fitting Bridgestone tyres to the Michelin teams sounds like a simple workable idea - even if we are to assume that Bridgestone had enough tyres to supply all 20 cars (which was unlikely). The idea isn't possible for two reasons:

Bridgestone would not be willing to give their tyres to the Michelin teams for obvious reasons

The Michelin teams would have major problems adapting their cars on such short notice to a completely different tyre that they don't understand.

Such is the difference between the tyres at this level that a team switching tyres at the start of the season is considered to be at a disadvatnage for the first few races of the season.

All tyre companies could be made to do this by rule. As far as time to adapt goes, I think some of you underestimate the caliber of engineer in F1. I seem to remember a team named BAR throwing a set of Michelins on their cars a few offseasons ago and dominating that entire offsean of testing! How hard could it be - springs, shocks and sway bars - big deal. A testing session or 2 and they'd have that sorted. In any case, the teams could have that as an option and then let them decide whether they think it's feasible. At least then, the blame is purely on Michelin. Mind you, at this particular event, I had no problem with the chicane plus a few penalties for the Michelin teams - start behind Bridgestone teams and do a drive thru as well.

[Byron Forbes]

So Michelin's official statement has put the track surface issues to bed - They did not mention it!!

Just said their computer got it wrong.

Well, that's not really what they said. The main issue is that they had NO opportunity to test, and at a track that has the most demanding corner in F1.

They have hinted at the track itself in subtle ways, but I concede they are foolish to not point the finger squarely at it's resurfacing if that is indeed what they are hinting at. I want to see this question directed at them and see what their response is!

In any case, I think the views of many of you are lop-sided. You all say Michelin, I say FIA. No testing (especially at IMS T13) plus cut throat tyre rules PLUS no contingency makes the FIA clearly to blame in my book.

If the penalties are harsh, the FIA is history. If not, my interest in F1 will fade. Races are dictated enough by what goes on off the track already (budget) without this sort of nonsense playing a key role also.

[Ed]

All tyre companies could be made to do this by rule.

Competitive nature won't allow that. If a tyre company is forced to provide tyres to a competitor, we'll have a single tyre supplier in no time.
Why are tyres any different to an engine, gearbox, TC system ?

As far as time to adapt goes, I think some of you underestimate the caliber of engineer in F1. I seem to remember a team named BAR throwing a set of Michelins on their cars a few offseasons ago and dominating that entire offsean of testing! How hard could it be - springs, shocks and sway bars - big deal. A testing session or 2 and they'd have that sorted. In any case, the teams could have that as an option and then let them decide whether they think it's feasible. At least then, the blame is purely on Michelin. Mind you, at this particular event, I had no problem with the chicane plus a few penalties for the Michelin teams - start behind Bridgestone teams and do a drive thru as well.

Point taken Byron but let me point out that the reason BAR switched to Michelin is because they felt they weren't getting the most out of the Bridgestones just like Sauber felt this year when they switched to Michelin.
As for setting fastest times in testing, that is pretty pointless if you fail to score in the real test and BAR started the season miserably struggling with grip in the first few races. (before the San Marino drama)
The engineers these teams have are no doubt brilliant but it takes time for the whole package to work.

Recall back in 1998 at the last race for Goodyear, Bridgstone setup a special test for the teams runners to acclimatise to their tyres even though the '99 season was more than 3 months away.

[Julian Mayo]

So Michelin's official statement has put the track surface issues to bed - They did not mention it!!

Just said their computer got it wrong.

Well, that's not really what they said. The main issue is that they had NO opportunity to test, and at a track that has the most demanding corner in F1.

They have hinted at the track itself in subtle ways, but I concede they are foolish to not point the finger squarely at it's resurfacing if that is indeed what they are hinting at. I want to see this question directed at them and see what their response is!

In any case, I think the views of many of you are lop-sided. You all say Michelin, I say FIA. No testing (especially at IMS T13) plus cut throat tyre rules PLUS no contingency makes the FIA clearly to blame in my book.

If the penalties are harsh, the FIA is history. If not, my interest in F1 will fade. Races are dictated enough by what goes on off the track already (budget) without this sort of nonsense playing a key role also.

Bloody crap Sport !!!! Read the posts or piss off!!!! Most of the posts on all the threads blame the FIA first then disseminate the blame according to their personal preferences. If your sole intention for posting is to inflame genuine wounds that true F1 supporters, regardless of team, colour, race, creed or any other differentiating circumstance that might exist, and turn people against people, go get a life. Would you like to explain on this thread why you asked a gentle gentleman, of whom you know nothing about, a stupid question about football? If your motives are honest and good, I will apologise publicly for asking you to explain yourself. Your move.

[Byron Forbes]

So Michelin's official statement has put the track surface issues to bed - They did not mention it!!

Just said their computer got it wrong.

Well, that's not really what they said. The main issue is that they had NO opportunity to test, and at a track that has the most demanding corner in F1.

They have hinted at the track itself in subtle ways, but I concede they are foolish to not point the finger squarely at it's resurfacing if that is indeed what they are hinting at. I want to see this question directed at them and see what their response is!

In any case, I think the views of many of you are lop-sided. You all say Michelin, I say FIA. No testing (especially at IMS T13) plus cut throat tyre rules PLUS no contingency makes the FIA clearly to blame in my book.

If the penalties are harsh, the FIA is history. If not, my interest in F1 will fade. Races are dictated enough by what goes on off the track already (budget) without this sort of nonsense playing a key role also.

Bloody crap Sport !!!! Read the posts or piss off!!!! Most of the posts on all the threads blame the FIA first then disseminate the blame according to their personal preferences. If your sole intention for posting is to inflame genuine wounds that true F1 supporters, regardless of team, colour, race, creed or any other differentiating circumstance that might exist, and turn people against people, go get a life. Would you like to explain on this thread why you asked a gentle gentleman, of whom you know nothing about, a stupid question about football? If your motives are honest and good, I will apologise publicly for asking you to explain yourself. Your move.

Well Mayo, I hope you know what you're on about mate, 'cause I got no idea! Where's those men in the white coats?

[Byron Forbes]

Just had a look at Michelin's statement on the F1 site and they DO specify "revisions to Regulations, Aerodynamics and track surface". This statement seems to vary a bit from the one on this site atm.

http://www.formula1.com/race/news/3230/740.html

2nd paragraph (after the red print)

[Byron Forbes]

Here's what's on this site -

Given the evolutions concerning the cars' aerodynamics, the regulations which govern the sport and the nature of the track surfaces, etc., Michelin carries out testing in the course of each season with a view to developing the tyres which are the most suited to each event.

Actually, after reading what's on this site again, carefully , it is actually specified here too, but IMS specificaly is not mentioned. Bloody ambiguous!

[Ed]

Byron,

That is a reporters interpretation of the Michelin's statement.
What we have published is what Michelin have issued.

In their statement Michelin say

Given the evolutions concerning the cars' aerodynamics, the regulations which govern the sport and the nature of the track surfaces, etc.,

I would expect Michelin's motorsport director Pierre Dupasquier to be present at the Friday Press Conference. (Schedule yet to be confirmed by the FIA!)

[GhoGho]

Maybe the teams could have all run wet tires on an artificially wet surface?

would this have made any difference?

[Byron Forbes]

If this is not specifically addressed and answered then, I'm going to go nuts! I wonder if there's any reason to steer clear of the issue?

[Ed]

Maybe the teams could have all run wet tires on an artificially wet surface?

would this have made any difference?

That is another idea that won't work unless the track is designed with an artificial watering system. Tankers would flood the track but by the time the race is started, it will take around 10 laps for a dry line to appear and the teams would have to switch to dry tyres. Back to square one!

[gmcg28c]

Here's my two cents' on the fiasco at the USGP--Indy....


As to the point raised by gm on whether Bridgestone had an"advantage" from the testing its' U.S. subsidiary, Firestone, conducted prior to this year's Indy 500, I disagree, for the following reasons:1--The tires Firestone tested(the Firestone Firehawk racing slicks) were not tested on the road course section, but only on the diamond-ground oval; thus, any info gleaned for Bridgestone would've only applied to 1/3rd of the USGP track surface--that's not much of an advantage, if any, and 2--According to an interview currently posted over at AutoRacing1.com's front-page, Bridgestone's Exec. Dir. of Motorsports, Al Speyer, deines that there was any cooperation between Bridgestone and Firestone on what tire compounds would work at the USGP. Since Speyer coordinates the tire preparation/management for both American open-wheel series(ChampCar and the Indy Racing League) he would know if there was any info that Bridgestone's F1 people could've needed to gain advantage over Michelin.

Been away for a couple of days

I assume you were referring to me in this parragraph. If so I think you miss the point of my arguement. When I refered to Bridgestone having the benefit of Firestones knowledge. I was meaning that without Firestones knowledge they may have been in the same boat as Michelin and we could of had a situation where both teams declared their tyres unsuitable. then we would of had a race with a chicaine with out dispute. (anyhow, all hypothetical really)

Even if firestone tyres were quite different in spec to the F1 Bridgestones, there would of still be some useful knowledge about the track that could be passed on.

I have just read Michelin's statement. I think it is only pertinent for Michelin to only comment about their tyre. As the track is the playing field it is equal to all players and also you can't comment about the track surface without including the effect of the cars. The forces that are applied to the tyre are a combination of both car and track. But they did say that turn 13 places more demand on tyres than any other corner of all the other 19 circuits.

I would not be surprised if next year we see less teams on Michelin and a third tyre manufacture involved.