Can Danica Patrick make it into F1 ?

[Julian Mayo]

I may be wrong, julian, but the key difference between Juan Pablo and Danica could be their teammates and how they interact w/one another. It seems that JPM, since going to F1 in 2001 w/BMW-Williams, believes that he is destined to be the #1 driver on the team, irrespective of what anyone may think. Since going to McLaren-Mercedes this year, he's been hampered, I think, by having to fight for race wins w/an equally well-prepared driver in Kimi Raikkonen, and its' hurt him this year.
On the other hand, Patrick's been fortunate enough to have two good and supportive teammates at Rahal-Letterman, in 2004 Indy 500 winner Buddy Rice and veteran racer Vitor Meira, who I'm sure have given her plenty of advice on how to handle the rigors of each venue on the IRL schedule, as well as anything else that comes up during the year. Plus, as Danica's probably said hundreds of times so far this year, she's still a rookie, she's still learning the ropes, so to speak. She just seems to be more grounded in her outlook on the season than JPM has been this year, and that can have a major effect on one's season results.

Mfer, the reason she first attracted my attention was the combination of on track performance/feet on the ground, I am going to learn from every single person attitude. Monty has as much natural talent as anyone out there, and more than most. He reminds me of Jochen Rindt, win or go down in flames. Danica has, (and this will no doubt be misread or misunderstood by many!!!!!,) attributes that remind me of Senna, in as much as she seems to apply herself to her current driving with a single mind set. It would have been so easy for her to parade around Indy saying" yes I would love to drive F1, give me a car, I am the next best thing etc and generally revel in the limelight. The lady responded in a manner which suggests to me that she will go to F1 if
a. It is the best move for her
b. She believes she can win the WDC
meaning she will only go into a top level team, with a commensurate $ package
and only on those terms.
That is what reminds me of Senna.
Had he chosen another career he would have risen to the top, because of who he was. Patrick, to me, has a similar persona.

[mlittle]

Good point, julian. I know I said this in an earlier posting here, but I mentioned once that many of the great drivers in auto racing history(drivers such as Phil Hill, Mario Andretti, Al Unser, Sr. & Jr., Danny Sullivan, and a bunch more) all had certain traits or characteristics that set 'em apart from the average driver, like the ability to stretch their vehicles to the absolute, bone-jarring 'edge of the envelope' w/out going over the edge. Danica's got that ability down pat, and here's an example of what I mean. During her first Formula Atlantics race in Monterrey, Mexico in 2003, she was involved in an early incident w/a couple of other drivers, and her team was concerned that the front wing on her Toyota-Swift racecar could break away later in the race. If you're wondering what could've happened, just think about what happened when the rear wing on Raikkonen's McLaren flew off at Hockenheim last year. She goes into the pits, they slap new tires on the car, and as they're getting ready to swap front wings, they change their minds and tighten the wing down as much as possible. Apparently she felt the wing hadn't been damaged severely enough to warrant a change, and went back out to continue the race. To make a long story short, julian, she took that car and fought her way to a third-place finish in her first Atlantics race. That kind of 'envelope-edge' driving is something you can't teach a racer; they either have it or they don't, and Danica's got that same abiltity, that fire and drive that sets the great ones apart. You're right, she does remind me somewhat of Ayrton Senna, although I have to admit that I was more a fan of other F1 drivers like Nigel Mansell and Nelson Piquet at that time.

Come to think of it, you and I must be thinking on the same wave-length, huh?

[Julian Mayo]

Good point, julian. I know I said this in an earlier posting here, but I mentioned once that many of the great drivers in auto racing history(drivers such as Phil Hill, Mario Andretti, Al Unser, Sr. & Jr., Danny Sullivan, and a bunch more) all had certain traits or characteristics that set 'em apart from the average driver, like the ability to stretch their vehicles to the absolute, bone-jarring 'edge of the envelope' w/out going over the edge. Danica's got that ability down pat, and here's an example of what I mean. During her first Formula Atlantics race in Monterrey, Mexico in 2003, she was involved in an early incident w/a couple of other drivers, and her team was concerned that the front wing on her Toyota-Swift racecar could break away later in the race. If you're wondering what could've happened, just think about what happened when the rear wing on Raikkonen's McLaren flew off at Hockenheim last year. She goes into the pits, they slap new tires on the car, and as they're getting ready to swap front wings, they change their minds and tighten the wing down as much as possible. Apparently she felt the wing hadn't been damaged severely enough to warrant a change, and went back out to continue the race. To make a long story short, julian, she took that car and fought her way to a third-place finish in her first Atlantics race. That kind of 'envelope-edge' driving is something you can't teach a racer; they either have it or they don't, and Danica's got that same abiltity, that fire and drive that sets the great ones apart. You're right, she does remind me somewhat of Ayrton Senna, although I have to admit that I was more a fan of other F1 drivers like Nigel Mansell and Nelson Piquet at that time.

Come to think of it, you and I must be thinking on the same wave-length, huh?

What you are talking about is "seat of the pants" feel for the car, or as I call it " sphincter muscle getting ready as we hit 11 tenths" ( it pays to "void" before emergency surgery") IMHO Mansell bullied a car like a spitfire pilot in a dogfight, PQ floated the thing. two extremes.
Senna once said "the computer in the car is too slow, the car is does not respond fast enough" I have experienced "superslow" motion a couple of times in extreme situations ( ordinary slow motion being when you have stuffed up, the thing is spinning onto the grass n the concrete wall is about
to kiss you in the face). I doubt that DP has that ability, given that Senna could attain that brain speed as he slid into the car, but who knows? What, and I ask out of the personal experience that certain "types" have a greater prospensity to excel in certain situations, al la Senna, is her ethnicicty, And I am only too happy to post mine, if somebody questions my intentions

[mlittle]

The more that I read your last posting, julian, the more I believe that while we both think Danica Patrick's a darn good racer, with a good future ahead of her, we're looking at her from two distinct perspectives. (Before ya' say anything, hear me out on this one.) Having sat in the cockpit as a racer, you're looking at her from that angle, while I seem to be looking at her from the journalistic side of the coin, so to speak. I'll give you an example of what I mean. Everyone at my place of business gives me utter grief about not being a NASCAR fan(I've got a posting on one of these forum threads somewhere where I refer to how people, especially in the South, treat NASCAR as a "religion" of sorts) yet I can tell them just about anything about open-wheel racing, while when I ask them about stock-car racing all I get are blank stares and a mention of whoever won the race that weekend.

You made a reference about "superslow motion" in your posting, and it made me remember something her race engineer, Ray Leto, said about her. He said(paraphrased) that "she has an innate ability to slow down events in front of her during the race, much like a baseball hitter can slow down the pitch and see the rotation of the ball as it comes towards them". That, and being able to take the car to that "envelopes' edge" w/out falling off the edge, are things that you cannot teach a racer; again, like I said in the last posting, a driver either has it or they don't, pure and simple.

Again, like I said, I think its' safe to assume that we both see her as potentially one of the great drivers in auto racing, we just happen to see it from different perspectives. As Speed Channel's open-wheel analyst, Robin Miller, simply put it the night of this year's 500, "She is the real deal." Enough said.

[Julian Mayo]

If she can do what Leto said, and he was comparing it to, and saying she could do it better, than other drivers then she will have an advantage that will negate others ability.
A fella I know well won several superbike championship titles here, I have seen him trip and stumble a number of times after dismounting at the end of a race because of the time lag between his brain and body. I became his designated "catcher", it got me a pit crew pass

[JayVee]

Since both JayVee and Julian have asked me for updates concerning Danica Patrick's rookie IndyCar season, here's a little info on the next race on the schedule.

Thanks again mlittle, very informative. perhaps we'll need to watch IndyCar soon

sgd, what happened

[Julian Mayo]

Since both JayVee and Julian have asked me for updates concerning Danica Patrick's rookie IndyCar season, here's a little info on the next race on the schedule.

Thanks again mlittle, very informative. perhaps we'll need to watch IndyCar soon

sgd, what happened

Ah Goddess, you are so kind....crucify SGD.

[<T-K>]

JPM's record at Homestead:1999-started 8th, finished 9th
2000-started 2nd, finished 23rd
Danica's record there:2005-started 9th, finished 15th
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------JPM's record at Motegi:1999-started 15th, finished 13th
2000-started pole, finished 7th
Danica's record there:2005-started 2nd, finished 4th

T-K, the results are mixed on your point. Granted, Juan Pablo won the ChampCar title in 1999, but the schedule then had more road/street circuits than ovals and his oval record was mixed. Danica's schedule this year has just three(of 17 total races) and neither of them raced at any of the three(she finished 12th at St. Pete, one of the three). The only thing they seem to have had in common are some of the drivers they're facing, racers like Helio Castroneves, Tony Kanaan, Dario Franchitti, Alex Barron, Bryan Herta and Patrick Carpentier. I hope this was worth a shot, though. Let me know what you think, okay.

You make a good point......instead of breaking into an all out argument (which i`m normally quite good at) i will, instead agree with most of your points, just pointing out that road/street courses are, i feel, a lot more important because they prepare a driver for the circuits in F1, and an oval just wont give you the same experience.

Now....on to the body of my minor argument, when i made that statement, i was not talking about comparisons per race, but over an entire season, and over the seasons JPM "wins hands down"

Well thats my side of it anyway .....(but well done for posing a good argument)

[<T-K>]

which of the salient points do you doubt?

I would just like to make it clear that i would love to see her in F1, its just that i doubt she will get in, and even if she does, i dont think she will get very far, her looks(which i can only say ) can only get her so far.

If you compare JPM`s previous records in the U.S (before F1), and Danica`s, JPM wins hands down, and look at JPM, hasnt ever won an F1 championship....now i dont know if you see my point of view, but it is worth a shot trying to explain..

Yup., but you are overlooking the psychology of the two. One is strong willed, determined,focused and has ablilty,: the other can't drive past a KFC without stopping

Make that a McDonalds
But at least JPM doesnt need do do his hair and put on make up before he stops at Macki D`s (or KFC for that matter)

[<T-K>]

Isn't it kind of ironic, that Patrick, who's got a pretty good team behind her in Rahal-Letterman Racing, is holding her own against Penske, Ganassi and Andretti-Green Racing in the IndyCar series, while Montoya, who drives in F1 for McLaren Mercedes,seems to be struggling against teams like Renault, BMW-Williams, BAR-Honda, and yes, even Scudaria Ferrari, despite their struggles this year.

Fighting off competitors in Indycar (Kanaan, Wheldon, Sheckter) is completely diferent to fighting off people people in F1 (Alonso,Kimi ,Shumi) and cannot be compared......F1 is a totally different ball game.

(ps: I had to add sheckter in there, being south african and all)
Is it Weldon or Wheldon ......i never get these things right !!!

[mlittle]

2-part posting....

1-Point taken, t-k, point taken. Since you mentioned Tony Kanaan's name in your posting, you might be interested in knowing that multiple news sources(speedtv.com, pitpass.com, etc.) have reported that BAR-Honda will be giving Kanaan a test session, date and time tba. So if you're wondering who might be in the running to possibly replace Jenson Button there, add Kanaan's name to the mix.

2-JayVee, if you ever get the chance, visit the IRL's website, indycar.com. It's a beautiful website w/plenty of links about the series' schedule, archival info(past results), driver bios', links to the IMS radio network, and lots more info. Check it out if you get the chance.

[Julian Mayo]

nice site Mfer, what has been Scott Dixon's main problem this year? Young Ryan is doing well in the "rookie race', but for Danica! The FIA could learn from a site like that!

[mlittle]

Dixon's main problem this year, julian, stems from that Toyota Indy engine in the back of his Target/Ganassi Panoz. Like Chevy had in 2003, it seems that anyone using a Toyota powerplant(except for Marlboro-Team Penske, which build their own Toyota engines) is facing a small hp disadvantage vs. both the Chevy & Honda engines. This was apparent at Texas, when Tomas Scheckter's Pennzoil Platinum Chevy was the dominant car, despite challenges from Sam Hornish,Jr.(Toyota) and both Kanaan(Honda) and Wheldon(Honda). Dixon's won at Richmond before, in 2003, so if any of the Toyota racers know how to negate the hp problem, he does.

As far as the rookie stdgs. go, I saw the angst in your statement. Both Briscoe(an ex-F1 test driver for Toyota F1) and Patrick should have a spirited fight for that award. Watch out for Scheckter's teammate at Panther Racing, Tomas Enge; he drives the only other Chevy in the series and should challenge for the rookie title. BTW, Briscoe posted the fastest times of the 19 drivers(including Patrick) at the open test session the series held at Watkins Glen last Wed.; his time was in the 1:30 range.

You're right, though; the FIA could definitely learn how to run a website from studying both the IRL and ChampCar's websites.

[Julian Mayo]

Dixon's main problem this year, julian, stems from that Toyota Indy engine in the back of his Target/Ganassi Panoz. Like Chevy had in 2003, it seems that anyone using a Toyota powerplant(except for Marlboro-Team Penske, which build their own Toyota engines) is facing a small hp disadvantage vs. both the Chevy & Honda engines. This was apparent at Texas, when Tomas Scheckter's Pennzoil Platinum Chevy was the dominant car, despite challenges from Sam Hornish,Jr.(Toyota) and both Kanaan(Honda) and Wheldon(Honda). Dixon's won at Richmond before, in 2003, so if any of the Toyota racers know how to negate the hp problem, he does.

As far as the rookie stdgs. go, I saw the angst in your statement. Both Briscoe(an ex-F1 test driver for Toyota F1) and Patrick should have a spirited fight for that award. Watch out for Scheckter's teammate at Panther Racing, Tomas Enge; he drives the only other Chevy in the series and should challenge for the rookie title. BTW, Briscoe posted the fastest times of the 19 drivers(including Patrick) at the open test session the series held at Watkins Glen last Wed.; his time was in the 1:30 range.

You're right, though; the FIA could definitely learn how to run a website from studying both the IRL and ChampCar's websites.

No angst. I am a Danica fan. Just keeping an eye on Ryan

[mlittle]

Sorry, julian, I thought I saw a little angst in your statement before; my apologies. BTW, at the street race at St. Pete, Briscoe was in contention to win until he tried to fight Kanaan for the inside line going into the sharp left-hander at turn 10 and got sent into the tire-wall, ending his day about 10 or so laps from the end. Unfortunately for TK, his move allowed Wheldon to slip past him and win the race.