The 7 Michelin teams (Guilty verdict cancelled!)

Ed · Post by Ed » Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:53 am

The full transcript of Max Mosely Press Conference is now available here

Regarding the situation with BAR, he said "We considered that question carefully and we invited their counsel l representative to make submissions on that point and the view of the World Council was that the two things were so different it would not be fair to impose the ban that was suspended. We really would only impose that ban if there was a repetition of an offence similar to the one for which the ban was imposed, and this seems to be quite different"

K-D · Post by **K-D** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:48 am

The 6 teams have appealed, som this will rumble on. Any statements at all from Red Bull??

Their being on the outside compared to the 7 other teams, seems a confirmation that they will sign up with Bridgestone and a new Concorde, or am I reading to much into that??

I am with Max on this one, it is Michelin's fault 100% however the way that the system is set up, the FIA can only go after the teams. The teams obviously think that they have a good cazse, since they are now appealing it.

Will the appeal only be handling the two guilty counts?? Or will they go over all 5 once more?? What is the process for an appeal, whom do you appeal to?? And what kind of timing is involved?? I thought that the council was the "Supreme Court" in this matter.

Back to you Ed.

lemon_martini2 · Post by **lemon_martini2** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:46 am

This bit looks intriguing and I quote verbatim from the statement

Conclusion

16. All of us wanted to have a proper race at Indianapolis, which is one of motor racing's most sacred venues, and to showcase Formula One to the American public. We are all excrement disappointed that we were unable to di this.

That's one way of putting it

Ed · Post by Ed » Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:43 am

lemon_martini2 wrote:This bit looks intriguing and I quote verbatim from the statement

Conclusion

16. All of us wanted to have a proper race at Indianapolis, which is one of motor racing's most sacred venues, and to showcase Formula One to the American public. We are all excrement disappointed that we were unable to di this.

That's one way of putting it

I suppose lemon!

But it is just a typo and thanks for pointing it.

Ed · Post by Ed » Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:54 am

K-D wrote:The 6 teams have appealed, som this will rumble on. Any statements at all from Red Bull??

Their being on the outside compared to the 7 other teams, seems a confirmation that they will sign up with Bridgestone and a new Concorde, or am I reading to much into that??

I am with Max on this one, it is Michelin's fault 100% however the way that the system is set up, the FIA can only go after the teams. The teams obviously think that they have a good cazse, since they are now appealing it.

Will the appeal only be handling the two guilty counts?? Or will they go over all 5 once more?? What is the process for an appeal, whom do you appeal to?? And what kind of timing is involved?? I thought that the council was the "Supreme Court" in this matter.

Back to you Ed.

No statements from Red Bull. The were not represented by counsel at the hearing and the only comment made was that they were considering their options.
My take on it is that they accept what the WMSC's decision

It is interesting that the teams are appealing. On the face of it, it appears that the teams get off lightly (including BAR who were considered under the most threat) however given all the politics that is going on in F1 at the moment, the teams feel that they don't want to be held at ransom by the FIA.

As for appeal process, they will be heard by the International Court of Appeal and I assume that all 5 counts will be heard but I cannot confirm this. Any decision by the WMSC can be appealed through the International Court of Appeal. If the teams aren't satisfied, they can go to the Civil Courts after that.
When ?, it isn't expected to be very soon as it isn't an urgent matter

Bundy · Post by **Bundy** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:29 pm

Ed wrote:
K-D wrote:The 6 teams have appealed, som this will rumble on. Any statements at all from Red Bull??

Their being on the outside compared to the 7 other teams, seems a confirmation that they will sign up with Bridgestone and a new Concorde, or am I reading to much into that??

I am with Max on this one, it is Michelin's fault 100% however the way that the system is set up, the FIA can only go after the teams. The teams obviously think that they have a good cazse, since they are now appealing it.

Will the appeal only be handling the two guilty counts?? Or will they go over all 5 once more?? What is the process for an appeal, whom do you appeal to?? And what kind of timing is involved?? I thought that the council was the "Supreme Court" in this matter.

Back to you Ed.

No statements from Red Bull. The were not represented by counsel at the hearing and the only comment made was that they were considering their options.
My take on it is that they accept what the WMSC's decision

It is interesting that the teams are appealing. On the face of it, it appears that the teams get off lightly (including BAR who were considered under the most threat) however given all the politics that is going on in F1 at the moment, the teams feel that they don't want to be held at ransom by the FIA.

As for appeal process, they will be heard by the International Court of Appeal and I assume that all 5 counts will be heard but I cannot confirm this. Any decision by the WMSC can be appealed through the International Court of Appeal. If the teams aren't satisfied, they can go to the Civil Courts after that.
When ?, it isn't expected to be very soon as it isn't an urgent matter

just want to point out at the start that i'm not a lawyer BUT

how & why would you appeal against a decision that went in your favour. i'm pretty sure they would only be hearing the 2 guilty counts unless the FIA appeal against the 3 not guilty.

the other three may be mentioned in the process of the appeal but would not directly be involved.

that is just my limited legal expertise. if it is wrong i hereby absolve myself of any wrong doing.

Bundy · Post by **Bundy** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:30 pm

Ed wrote:
K-D wrote:The 6 teams have appealed, som this will rumble on. Any statements at all from Red Bull??

Their being on the outside compared to the 7 other teams, seems a confirmation that they will sign up with Bridgestone and a new Concorde, or am I reading to much into that??

I am with Max on this one, it is Michelin's fault 100% however the way that the system is set up, the FIA can only go after the teams. The teams obviously think that they have a good cazse, since they are now appealing it.

Will the appeal only be handling the two guilty counts?? Or will they go over all 5 once more?? What is the process for an appeal, whom do you appeal to?? And what kind of timing is involved?? I thought that the council was the "Supreme Court" in this matter.

Back to you Ed.

No statements from Red Bull. The were not represented by counsel at the hearing and the only comment made was that they were considering their options.
My take on it is that they accept what the WMSC's decision

It is interesting that the teams are appealing. On the face of it, it appears that the teams get off lightly (including BAR who were considered under the most threat) however given all the politics that is going on in F1 at the moment, the teams feel that they don't want to be held at ransom by the FIA.

As for appeal process, they will be heard by the International Court of Appeal and I assume that all 5 counts will be heard but I cannot confirm this. Any decision by the WMSC can be appealed through the International Court of Appeal. If the teams aren't satisfied, they can go to the Civil Courts after that.
When ?, it isn't expected to be very soon as it isn't an urgent matter

just want to point out at the start that i'm not a lawyer BUT

how & why would you appeal against a decision that went in your favour. i'm pretty sure they would only be hearing the 2 guilty counts unless the FIA appeal against the 3 not guilty.

the other three may be mentioned in the process of the appeal but would not directly be involved.

that is just my limited legal expertise. if it is wrong i hereby absolve myself of any wrong doing for providing incorrect information.

K-D · Post by **K-D** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:39 pm

No statements from Red Bull. The were not represented by counsel at the hearing and the only comment made was that they were considering their options.
My take on it is that they accept what the WMSC's decision - Makes sense

It is interesting that the teams are appealing. On the face of it, it appears that the teams get off lightly (including BAR who were considered under the most threat) however given all the politics that is going on in F1 at the moment, the teams feel that they don't want to be held at ransom by the FIA. - Must be the Politics angle making them feel the need, I think that the WMSC went a very long way at pleasing them, so this is more of the by now familiar contest of marking of territory.

As for appeal process, they will be heard by the International Court of Appeal and I assume that all 5 counts will be heard but I cannot confirm this. Any decision by the WMSC can be appealed through the International Court of Appeal. If the teams aren't satisfied, they can go to the Civil Courts after that.
When ?, it isn't expected to be very soon as it isn't an urgent matter - So the appeal could be handled after September 14th, at which time they may be given zero penalty, other than a raised finger?? And the appeals then find them guilty in all 5 counts??

Byron Forbes · Post by **Byron Forbes** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:14 pm

I think the teams should appeal for sure.

Firstly, the FIA are outrageously implying that they themselves are void of blame. Via their rules and a lack of testing opportunities for the teams, they must share blame.

Furthermore, if I was Michelin and the teams, I would only agree to compensate the fans, etc, if the FIA also agreed to shoulder their share of this expense. If not, I would pay nothing to anyone. It's outrageous that the FIA are holding Michelin and teams to ransom in the way they are with the suspended decision on penalties.

No wonder they're appealing.

Byron Forbes · Post by **Byron Forbes** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 7:19 pm

Teams found guilty of

- failed to ensure that they had a supply of suitable tyres for the race

- wrongly refused to allow their cars to start the race

and now we have the confusion with them, affer penalty,

failing to accept the speed limit in T13

OR

failing to use the pit lane.

Just gets funnier and funnier. They don't even know what they're talking about anymore!

They're so deperately obsessed with keeping the finger pointed at everyone but themselves that they don't even know how to point that finger properly anymore!

2) In relation to the finding that the Teams wrongfully refused to allow their cars to start the race having regard to their right to use the pit lane on each lap, the Teams respond as follows. The charges suggested only one means by which the Teams could safely have raced (the use of a speed restriction). On that charge, the Teams were found not guilty. The Teams cannot understand how they can be found guilty by reference to another proposed solution, which was not part of the charges brought against them, which was not suggested by the FIA at Indianapolis, which was considered unsafe and which, in any event, would not have achieved a satisfactory race for the fans.

Just hysterical stuff!

I sense a little senility creeping in here!

Max Mosley's advisor - "I told you Todt is NOT the FIA you bloody twit"

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:07 pm

Okay, the general consensus seems to be that the teams should appeal.
They will be appealing, at great legal cost, to a "court" who's members are appointed by ........yes... you guessed it.. the FIA. DUH !
IE, I shot the Sheriff, I was tried by his Father, the Judge. I was found guilty. I will now appeal to the Judges brother. Cheaper and easier to just quietly top myself. don't you think

Ed · Post by Ed » Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:44 pm

bundy wrote:
just want to point out at the start that i'm not a lawyer BUT

how & why would you appeal against a decision that went in your favour. i'm pretty sure they would only be hearing the 2 guilty counts unless the FIA appeal against the 3 not guilty.

the other three may be mentioned in the process of the appeal but would not directly be involved.

that is just my limited legal expertise. if it is wrong i hereby absolve myself of any wrong doing.

Neither am I but my reasoning is that when you appeal then the entire case is heard again and not just the bits that are unfavourable

Ed · Post by Ed » Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:50 pm

As expected, Michelin's motorsport director Pierre Dupasquier will be present at the Friday Press Conference following the practice sessions. Also present will be Collin Kolles (Jordan), Jean Todt (Ferrari) and Hiroshi Yasukawa (Bridgestone). Should be interesting!

Kapel · Post by **Kapel** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:06 am

Ed wrote:As expected, Michelin's motorsport director Pierre Dupasquier will be present at the Friday Press Conference following the practice sessions. Also present will be Collin Kolles (Jordan), Jean Todt (Ferrari) and Hiroshi Yasukawa (Bridgestone). Should be interesting!

This should be exiciting!!!

BTW Ed,who decides whom to call for the press conf

Also Ed,am i the 3rd person to cross over 1000 post after Julian & JV.???.not counting u

Ed · Post by Ed » Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:27 am

Kapel wrote: BTW Ed,who decides whom to call for the press conf

The FIA and you have to attend otherwise .....

Kapel wrote: Also Ed,am i the 3rd person to cross over 1000 post after Julian & JV.???.not counting u

Indeed you are. Should have noticed!

Congratulations and thanks for your contribution to NewsOnF1 Forums

And here is a smiley for you