The International Court of Appeal decided to ban the BAR Honda team for 2 races (Spain and Monaco) and strip them of their results from San Marino. The team will also have a 6 month ban suspended for 1 year.
Full statement from the FIA
What are your thoughts ?
BAR Penalty - Your Thoughts
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grandprixdiary
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This is a joke. It would appear, though I have not yet read the full judgement, that BAR are guilty as charged. To then ban them from the next two races is just a slap on the wrist, although I expect the sponsors won't be too happy, bobbing about on their Monaco yachts with no team to cheer on. This smacks as a bit of sabre rattling by the FIA, scare the teams silly and show a bit of muscle, they never had any intention of seeing BAR kicked out for the season, and whatever BAR have done this is just bad news for the image of F1 full stop.
Rob
Rob
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F1greyhound
- Over 500
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If i understood right, FIA didn't like that BAR sayd "that's it" when were asked to drain the tanks and still there was fuel inside, thus 'no transparency...'F1greyhound wrote:Jensons car was 10kg light, why not a 20sec penalty plus fine?
Bauer’s assistant Kris de Groot were the responsible for the fuel check at Imola, suggested that BAR had not complied adequately with his request for the car to be completely drained of fuel.
“I asked for a full drain-out and afterwards I found more fuel,” he said.
Willis disputed this description of the procedure his team was asked to perform, saying that “the request we had was to do a lifted pump out; we have never been asked to do a full pump out.”
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I'd like to post some thoughs, while not mine i am quite agree with them...
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The FIA's Double Standards
Once again, the FIA have shown double standards in dealing with a legality issue. We do not need a very long memory to recall the Ferrari barge boards incident in 1999. On that occasion, it was obviously advantageous for Ecclestone to keep Ferrari in the Championship until the last race for the benefit of his precious TV audiences. By their own admission yesterday, the FIA technical delegate knew of the secondary tank since the start of the season, and had declared it to be legal, so what is the justification for the penalties imposed now. Ecclestone had already pre-judged the outcome this morning, and demanded BAR's exclusion from the Championship, so we all know where he stands ( as usual ). Two years ago, Ferrari protested Michelin tyres which Williams and other teams had been using legally for over two seasons, when it looked as though they were going to be defeated in the Championship.
I think todays ruling will probably harden the attitude of the GPWC teams to set up their own Championship in 2008. That way, Ferrari can then race themselves, and be assured of winning every race, which is obviously the only thing thay will be satisfied with!
David Robinson, Milton Keynes
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The FIA's Double Standards
Once again, the FIA have shown double standards in dealing with a legality issue. We do not need a very long memory to recall the Ferrari barge boards incident in 1999. On that occasion, it was obviously advantageous for Ecclestone to keep Ferrari in the Championship until the last race for the benefit of his precious TV audiences. By their own admission yesterday, the FIA technical delegate knew of the secondary tank since the start of the season, and had declared it to be legal, so what is the justification for the penalties imposed now. Ecclestone had already pre-judged the outcome this morning, and demanded BAR's exclusion from the Championship, so we all know where he stands ( as usual ). Two years ago, Ferrari protested Michelin tyres which Williams and other teams had been using legally for over two seasons, when it looked as though they were going to be defeated in the Championship.
I think todays ruling will probably harden the attitude of the GPWC teams to set up their own Championship in 2008. That way, Ferrari can then race themselves, and be assured of winning every race, which is obviously the only thing thay will be satisfied with!
David Robinson, Milton Keynes
one more...
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...I have been an avid F1 fan since I went to my first GP in 1969. The last few years nearly lost me though as the red train chugged boringly onward. However, suddenly 2005 started with a different complexion, new winners, more cars in the hunt, lots of young blood. However, it is turning sour for me already. I have had enough of that whining Ecclestone, I have had enough of Ferrari only agreeing to anything that benefits them and their contempt of any agreements, however gentlemanly they may have been. I have had enough of the way small teams are treated and I am appalled at the treatment of BAR, they just found another interpretation of the rules, something which is all too lacking these days. Thankfully there are many race series out there without all these politics. You can keep F1 and look for my British GP ticket on Ebay.
David Cooper
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...I have been an avid F1 fan since I went to my first GP in 1969. The last few years nearly lost me though as the red train chugged boringly onward. However, suddenly 2005 started with a different complexion, new winners, more cars in the hunt, lots of young blood. However, it is turning sour for me already. I have had enough of that whining Ecclestone, I have had enough of Ferrari only agreeing to anything that benefits them and their contempt of any agreements, however gentlemanly they may have been. I have had enough of the way small teams are treated and I am appalled at the treatment of BAR, they just found another interpretation of the rules, something which is all too lacking these days. Thankfully there are many race series out there without all these politics. You can keep F1 and look for my British GP ticket on Ebay.
David Cooper
I recommend you all to read the Editorial (Thursday May 05 2005) of
Planet-f1, many interesting bits!! :
Were BAR-Honda Stitched Up?
Considering the Benetton team ran with illegal software and weren't banned for a single race - the punishment handed out to BAR-Honda looks draconian in comparison... Continue HERE....
Planet-f1, many interesting bits!! :
Were BAR-Honda Stitched Up?
Considering the Benetton team ran with illegal software and weren't banned for a single race - the punishment handed out to BAR-Honda looks draconian in comparison... Continue HERE....
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Julian Mayo
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It pretty well sums up how I feel about this. Ferrari can get away with "bloody murder" , and BAR cop this for an offence "which could not be proved". Roll on 2008, goodbye to the Bernie curse!sgd wrote:I'd like to post some thoughs, while not mine i am quite agree with them...
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The FIA's Double Standards
Once again, the FIA have shown double standards in dealing with a legality issue. We do not need a very long memory to recall the Ferrari barge boards incident in 1999. On that occasion, it was obviously advantageous for Ecclestone to keep Ferrari in the Championship until the last race for the benefit of his precious TV audiences. By their own admission yesterday, the FIA technical delegate knew of the secondary tank since the start of the season, and had declared it to be legal, so what is the justification for the penalties imposed now. Ecclestone had already pre-judged the outcome this morning, and demanded BAR's exclusion from the Championship, so we all know where he stands ( as usual ). Two years ago, Ferrari protested Michelin tyres which Williams and other teams had been using legally for over two seasons, when it looked as though they were going to be defeated in the Championship.
I think todays ruling will probably harden the attitude of the GPWC teams to set up their own Championship in 2008. That way, Ferrari can then race themselves, and be assured of winning every race, which is obviously the only thing thay will be satisfied with!
David Robinson, Milton Keynes
The Mountain is a savage Mistress.
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Graham Ross
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This ruling is hugely unfair
BAR were not found guilty of cheating and that was the most critical.
To go and disqualify them from Imola then ban them for 2 races for what appears to be a misunderstanding is outrageous.
The rules aren't clear about the minimum weight. No where does it mention that the car must be weighed without fuel or other fluids. BAR proved that the car was never under the 600 kg limit.
The only fault I see was that BAR didn't clarify this before hand but I see faults from the FIA side as well:
- Their own stewards as well as the technical delegate cleared the car
- The technical regulations aren't clear and can be open for interpretatoin
Add to that Bernie conveniently calls for BAR to be punished before the verdict is out
I hope that BAR do proceed with court action and prove this isn't a fair judgement.
BAR were not found guilty of cheating and that was the most critical.
To go and disqualify them from Imola then ban them for 2 races for what appears to be a misunderstanding is outrageous.
The rules aren't clear about the minimum weight. No where does it mention that the car must be weighed without fuel or other fluids. BAR proved that the car was never under the 600 kg limit.
The only fault I see was that BAR didn't clarify this before hand but I see faults from the FIA side as well:
- Their own stewards as well as the technical delegate cleared the car
- The technical regulations aren't clear and can be open for interpretatoin
Add to that Bernie conveniently calls for BAR to be punished before the verdict is out
I hope that BAR do proceed with court action and prove this isn't a fair judgement.
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JayVee
- F1 Race Winner
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This is a joke!
BAR didn't cheat. With all the so called evidence they couldn't prove they cheated so why the ban
The regulations aren't clear and don't state that the car can't have fuel in it. Why should it be understood that way ? Do they take out the weight of engine oil, brake oil and all the other fluids in the car ? I bet they don't.
Even though this will make JV 4th I am not happy at all and I hope BAR drag the FIA to court
Not happy and we have a race on. This is BAD
BAR didn't cheat. With all the so called evidence they couldn't prove they cheated so why the ban
The regulations aren't clear and don't state that the car can't have fuel in it. Why should it be understood that way ? Do they take out the weight of engine oil, brake oil and all the other fluids in the car ? I bet they don't.
Even though this will make JV 4th I am not happy at all and I hope BAR drag the FIA to court
Not happy and we have a race on. This is BAD
I'm back and yes supporting Alonso "The Cute" in the Ferrari!
For the first time in this forum i would like to admit that a rival championship is needed.Go GPWC!!!
I always mentioned that a dictator is need to govern these big manufactureres,but not Bernie style.
I bet BAR Honda,didnt let their Motorhome to Benie's secretary when she was on her honeymoon on the Imola track
It certainly looks like a planted move against the group of 9 teams, as the FIA news about the so called secret tank since Malaysia.Mosely & Bernie could have taken action then,but cos the group of 9 tems didnt turn up for the meeting schedule at that time.
I wouldnt still draw comparison of the decisions fro the past,but this one sucks!!!
I always mentioned that a dictator is need to govern these big manufactureres,but not Bernie style.
I bet BAR Honda,didnt let their Motorhome to Benie's secretary when she was on her honeymoon on the Imola track
It certainly looks like a planted move against the group of 9 teams, as the FIA news about the so called secret tank since Malaysia.Mosely & Bernie could have taken action then,but cos the group of 9 tems didnt turn up for the meeting schedule at that time.
I wouldnt still draw comparison of the decisions fro the past,but this one sucks!!!
An F1 Idiot!!!
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Julian Mayo
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Welll well well.
So you find it in order for a team to race cars, that are not prepared in accordance with the rules and regulations that the championships is governed by??
And you all find it in order that a teams representattives decide not to drain the car of fuel when asked to??
You find it in order that a teams representative can satet that the car is empty of fuel, even though there is still +10 liters left in the car??
So breaking a written rule is in order?? While not adhering to an unwritten agreement, which you do not consider yourself party to is not??
Why is doublestandards only an issue when targeting Ferrari / FIA??
So you find it in order for a team to race cars, that are not prepared in accordance with the rules and regulations that the championships is governed by??
And you all find it in order that a teams representattives decide not to drain the car of fuel when asked to??
You find it in order that a teams representative can satet that the car is empty of fuel, even though there is still +10 liters left in the car??
So breaking a written rule is in order?? While not adhering to an unwritten agreement, which you do not consider yourself party to is not??
Why is doublestandards only an issue when targeting Ferrari / FIA??
K-D