F1 - Technical Analysis

sgd · Post by **sgd** » Sat May 07, 2005 9:31 am

This topic is for comment about the technic and technology of the F1...
maybe someone could tell about how advanced is the F1-technology...(I am nor expert on this)
any curiosity or what ever about the high'tech which use the F1 cars.

sgd · Post by **sgd** » Sat May 07, 2005 9:36 am

right now i'd like to post about two interesting things (took from FIA site)

Barcelona - tyre dynamics and deformation

The car is set up with a camber angle so that the tyre becomes perfectly vertical when cornering, maximising its contact patch. This angle change is due to the chassis' roll and yaw movement - it rotates around the centre of roll (yellow and black dot). Furthermore, the lateral forces on the car when cornering (large red arrow) make it want to slide on its tyres. This is countered by the controlled deformation of the tyre shoulder (large yellow dot).

---------

Cool! isn't it?

sgd · Post by **sgd** » Sat May 07, 2005 9:38 am

the second is about a new bir Renault broufht to Barca...:

Renault R25 - front 'ears'

A small but interesting change for Barcelona -side 'ears', right over the push rod links. These have a similar function to the small winglets already seen on the Toyota TF105, the work of ex-Renault employee Mike Gascoyne. These 'ears' provide a small increase in frontal downforce and also provide better airflow management around the cockpit area.

This and the last post (tyres) were taken from here
----------

Looks like they are not "Resting On their Laurels"... =)

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Mon May 09, 2005 11:38 am

sgd wrote:right now i'd like to post about two interesting things (took from FIA site)

Barcelona - tyre dynamics and deformation

The car is set up with a camber angle so that the tyre becomes perfectly vertical when cornering, maximising its contact patch. This angle change is due to the chassis' roll and yaw movement - it rotates around the centre of roll (yellow and black dot). Furthermore, the lateral forces on the car when cornering (large red arrow) make it want to slide on its tyres. This is countered by the controlled deformation of the tyre shoulder (large yellow dot).

---------

Cool! isn't it?

SGD, if you have a look at picture of an Oz v8 supercar, or possibly a German touring car (merc, bmw etc,) taken front on you will see the extremes of camber
I run several degrees of negative camber on the ute to assist in cornering,
to get the mongrel to turn in

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Mon May 09, 2005 11:43 am

sgd wrote:the second is about a new bir Renault broufht to Barca...:

Renault R25 - front 'ears'

A small but interesting change for Barcelona -side 'ears', right over the push rod links. These have a similar function to the small winglets already seen on the Toyota TF105, the work of ex-Renault employee Mike Gascoyne. These 'ears' provide a small increase in frontal downforce and also provide better airflow management around the cockpit area.

This and the last post (tyres) were taken from here
----------

Looks like they are not "Resting On their Laurels"... =)

I use a similar system on the ute!
coming into left hand corners the passenger extends her arm horizontally out the window at ninety degrees to the vehicle and angles the hand at the appropriate degree depending on the radius of the corner (JV has got short arms

) On right handers I do the same

sgd · Post by **sgd** » Fri May 20, 2005 1:19 pm

K-D wrote:This is what I mean by ugly, and shuld be banned...

yeah, that's certanly ugly... herei post one more very ugly "aeropart"... (and should be banned as well (??)(because is SO ugly!

)

(i mean "2" and "OLD" as well)

JayVee · Post by **JayVee** » Fri May 20, 2005 3:32 pm

Yes that Ferrari extra bit is ugly. Not just that, it looks unprofessional and sloppy like it was added later as an after-thought

Shows that they are running out of ideas. By contrast see how beautifully designed the Renault is

K-D · Post by **K-D** » Fri May 20, 2005 5:06 pm

I don't rememeber in which thread I posted it. But somewhere here on the forum I said something like:

"One of the biggest problems in F1, and what makes it ?boring? to many casual observers is the lag of overtaking. The problem the drivers face is way to much aerodynamic grip. The FIA have reduced mechanical grip the last couple of years, but the regulation of Aero-grip is controlled by the teams. In order to change the rules, all teams must agree, and in this matter they do not.

There is no incentive for a team winning all the races, or being in contention at all the races to reduced and cut away from their advantage.

The rules should be re-done, giving the team free hands in the shape and size of the front and rear wing, except it could only have a total area of ?x? square meters, they can build as many tiers and wiggles as they want, but can not exceed the total square area.

Ban barge boards.

Ban all types of winglets.

If the teams once more manage to claw back to much aero grip, the square area will be reduced.

Put the cars on slicks once more, and allow them to fit brand new tires before the race, ban refuelling.

Ban carbon brakes.

Ban all electronic management of traction and launch.

Ban automatic and semi-automatic gear changes, bring old fashioned heel-and-toe shifting.

No pit to car communication, except via a pit board.

That will change F1, and make racing closer and allow for more overtaking."

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Fri May 20, 2005 5:44 pm

K-D, I cannot agree with banning radio comms, on the basis of safety. If there is a major shunt on part of the circuit, I believe radio is an essential safety tool. Perhaps make it one-way, pit to driver, only?

K-D · Post by **K-D** » Fri May 20, 2005 6:15 pm

julian mayo wrote:K-D, I cannot agree with banning radio comms, on the basis of safety. If there is a major shunt on part of the circuit, I believe radio is an essential safety tool. Perhaps make it one-way, pit to driver, only?

Harruuumpphhhhhhhhh....

I honestly think that to be a slightly exagerated argument. But yes I will allow for pit to car communication in case of an accident.

JayVee · Post by **JayVee** » Fri May 20, 2005 6:24 pm

Sorry K-D but we are living in 2005 not 1955

We have to live with the reality that F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport and should incorporate the latest technology available.

You can setup an alternate series (Bambino series is one example

) and have all the retro bits on. (or the tech bits off!!)

If the races of the old days were that much more exciting, how come then Fangio won 5 world championships and has the highest win/race ratio. It must have been boring then

Two things I'd like to see brought back, slick tyres and real qualifying

As for overtaking, have tracks like Sepang, Bahrain and Shanghai. Drivers will take risks due to the massive run-off areas and the races will be exciting. Whatever happens keep Monaco as is, it is a different thrill.

K-D · Post by **K-D** » Fri May 20, 2005 6:57 pm

JayVee wrote:Sorry K-D but we are living in 2005 not 1955

We have to live with the reality that F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport and should incorporate the latest technology available.

You can setup an alternate series (Bambino series is one example ) and have all the retro bits on. (or the tech bits off!!)

If the races of the old days were that much more exciting, how come then Fangio won 5 world championships and has the highest win/race ratio. It must have been boring then

Two things I'd like to see brought back, slick tyres and real qualifying

As for overtaking, have tracks like Sepang, Bahrain and Shanghai. Drivers will take risks due to the massive run-off areas and the races will be exciting. Whatever happens keep Monaco as is, it is a different thrill.

I am not looking for retro, I am looking for overtaking. A manual gear is no problem for any driver, even K-D managed to learn how to operate a FFord at Skip barber racing school, but one in a rare moment a driver will fluff a gear, and that will cost a position.

Carbon Brakes coupled with aero-grip mean braking distances that are to short, so less room for overtaking.

Steel brakes, slick tires, manual gear and less aero will give us longer braking distances, less dirty air behind the cars and more overtaking.

In regard Fangio answer is easy. He was just much much better than all the drivers he was racing against. Same as Michael Schumacher being much much better than all the drivers he is racing against......

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Fri May 20, 2005 7:06 pm

ED, this is gunna cost you

JayVee · Post by **JayVee** » Fri May 20, 2005 7:34 pm

K-D wrote: I am not looking for retro, I am looking for overtaking. A manual gear is no problem for any driver, even K-D managed to learn how to operate a FFord at Skip barber racing school, but one in a rare moment a driver will fluff a gear, and that will cost a position.

Carbon Brakes coupled with aero-grip mean braking distances that are to short, so less room for overtaking.

Steel brakes, slick tires, manual gear and less aero will give us longer braking distances, less dirty air behind the cars and more overtaking.

In regard Fangio answer is easy. He was just much much better than all the drivers he was racing against. Same as Michael Schumacher being much much better than all the drivers he is racing against......

You obviously are but that is your choice. We may all be getting older but we should adjust to the realities of this life.

Relying on barge boards for example is retro whichever way you look at it!!

As for Fangio, look at his win ratio and Michael is nowhere in his league.

Michael is such an overrated driver that only those who just look at numbers think he is great. I know this is not the right thread but you started it and I'll state my opinion. Michael isn't that great, had Senna not been killed in that accident he wouldn't have won any championship. Look at his record this year, nothing to brag about. If his car/tyres work he'll do well otherwise he is nowhere. Not the sign of a great!
The only reason Michael won the last 5 championships is becuase of a superior car and no team-mate to fight with. Sure it is legal but let me tell you it SUCKS and that is why F1 has lost its appeal. Not the overtaking, not the aerodynamics but Michael and Co and their tactics to win at any cost

K-D · Post by **K-D** » Fri May 20, 2005 7:52 pm

JayVee wrote:
K-D wrote: I am not looking for retro, I am looking for overtaking. A manual gear is no problem for any driver, even K-D managed to learn how to operate a FFord at Skip barber racing school, but one in a rare moment a driver will fluff a gear, and that will cost a position.

Carbon Brakes coupled with aero-grip mean braking distances that are to short, so less room for overtaking.

Steel brakes, slick tires, manual gear and less aero will give us longer braking distances, less dirty air behind the cars and more overtaking.

In regard Fangio answer is easy. He was just much much better than all the drivers he was racing against. Same as Michael Schumacher being much much better than all the drivers he is racing against......

You obviously are but that is your choice. We may all be getting older but we should adjust to the realities of this life.

Relying on barge boards for example is retro whichever way you look at it!!

As for Fangio, look at his win ratio and Michael is nowhere in his league.

Michael is such an overrated driver that only those who just look at numbers think he is great. I know this is not the right thread but you started it and I'll state my opinion. Michael isn't that great, had Senna not been killed in that accident he wouldn't have won any championship. Look at his record this year, nothing to brag about. If his car/tyres work he'll do well otherwise he is nowhere. Not the sign of a great!
The only reason Michael won the last 5 championships is becuase of a superior car and no team-mate to fight with. Sure it is legal but let me tell you it SUCKS and that is why F1 has lost its appeal. Not the overtaking, not the aerodynamics but Michael and Co and their tactics to win at any cost

I respectfully disagree with most of this post.

And I re-state. No I am not looking for retro I am loking for action, exitement and overtaking. Banning refuelling, will force the drivers rto overtake on track.

I could care less who wins the WCC, I am in to F1 for the drivers and the drivers winning races and championships.

You have your preferred driver(s), I have mine we disagree on what level of talent other drives had and has.

We also disagree on hoe easy/difficult it is to win in F1. Chosing to think that MS can only win "because" of the intra-team support, is in my view a denial of what it really takes to win in F1.