What's Changed ? - The Quali-flyer

Ed · Post by Ed » Wed May 18, 2005 11:50 pm

The Quali-flyer gives us his views on the start of the 2005 Formula 1 season ... read the full article here

You can add you comments by replying to this topic

K-D · Post by **K-D** » Thu May 19, 2005 12:13 am

I agree to a lot of what the Quali-Flyer wrotes, not all but that is the name of the game. The follwing I wrote before the season stared, and it to some extent touches on the Quali-Flyers "points of ill":

The state of F1
Formula 1 is not really in a crisis, the sport have been doing better than it is right now, but it will continue to thrive and as long as manufacturers and sponsors are willing to spend hundred of millions of dollars each year on participating, the doomsayers will not see it fold.

GPWC will not happen I understand that it still exists as an idea and concept, but as a viable "other" series it will never take of. Like it or not F1 goes where Ferrari goes, and they have thrown their hat with Bernie, FOM and the FIA.

The rest of the teams are acting like petulant little kids, them not inviting Ferrari to the Brazil meeting was a stupid idea, and Ferrari's no-show at the meeting this week was obvious since they already had signed up until 2012 in the current series.

The 9 teams then decided to boycott a meeting called by the FIA of all meetings, making them seem even more petulant, and really as if they are still living on an isolated island, rather the world as a whole 2005.

I agree that there are a number of things "wrong" or "ill" with F1, but it is still a series pitting the very best drivers in the world against each other. What I would like, has as far as I can see little resonance with the power makers.

But all the same I would like:

1) Ban re-fuelling during racing - F1 is about bringing a car from start to finish in the fastest way possible, but pit-stops is not part of the allure, it has created a series where we see "x" number of sprints between pit-stops, and most moves for position is done virtue of fast in-laps and out-laps.

2) Ban automatic and semi-automatic gear shifting - I want the drivers shifting gears the old-fashioned way, they will all do so, and by and large it will have zero impact on the racing, but occasionally they will all fluff a gear change, and that will make and brake their race, part of what racing is about.

3) Ban all car top pit electronic communication - No radio, no measuring, no nothing. Drivers can be shown pit-boards; apart from that they must run according to whatever strategy was agreed before the start.

4) Ban carbon fibre brakes - A F1 can brake at incredible short distances, I do not believe the off-quoted statement from Williams that there are no difference between carbon and steel brakes, and I am sure that brake distances will increase, making for more overtaking.

5) Ban winglets - They are ugly and assist the cars in getting (too much) down force. Front wings and rear wings with a specific maximum area, nothing else. No little wings behind the cockpit, no winglets no nothing.

6) Re-do the points system - I do not care how many or how few positions are giving points, but I do want that each position "up" is worth double the position under it. If accepting that we are now to award points to the top 8 in a race it should be:

1. 128 points
2. 64 points
3. 32 points
4. 16 points
5. 8 points
6. 4 points
7. 2 points
8. 1 point

This will make racing for position really count for something. Currently finishing second will keep you close to the WDC, even if the same person continue to finish first in front of you ( If Jenson Button was to win the first 9 races of 2005, with Juan Pablo Montoya second. And the 10th race had Juan Pablo win, and Jenson retire, then Jenson would only be 8 points in front, despite winning 90% of the races!!!!!!!!!!!!).

K-D · Post by **K-D** » Thu May 19, 2005 6:23 pm

This is what I mean by ugly, and shuld be banned...

http://images.f1racing.net/large/44373.jpg

sgd · Post by **sgd** » Fri May 20, 2005 12:38 pm

I didn't like The Quali-flyer...

too arrogant - K-D style.

saying that be mediocre and consistent is the same is

!!

Of course I agree with a lot of this article, many things just obviuos.
nothing new, as i said, arrogant and only talk about the drivers he like or specially un-like.

K-D · Post by **K-D** » Fri May 20, 2005 5:07 pm

sgd wrote:I didn't like The Quali-flyer...

too arrogant - K-D style.

saying that be mediocre and consistent is the same is !!

Of course I agree with a lot of this article, many things just obviuos.
nothing new, as i said, arrogant and only talk about the drivers he like or specially un-like.

How is that different fomr you and me?? (and I di realise I was already placed in his bracket)

F1greyhound · Post by **F1greyhound** » Fri May 20, 2005 8:27 pm

Not a bad article by the Q-F, except for the following 2 points, which IMO are not as stated:

1) Ralf has his best season

2) BAR are only good enough for minor placings this year

Interesting to see how much the Q-F thinks of Juan Pablo......

K-D, many times I would agree with you but your suggested points system is sheer nonsense. 128-1 that would really make you fight for 8th place.....Winning shall be worth more, e.g. 12 points instead of 10 to the winner would be ok, but winning cant be everything, if you have 10 teams with 2 cars all trying their best.

CHEERS!

K-D · Post by **K-D** » Fri May 20, 2005 8:47 pm

F1greyhound wrote:...
K-D, many times I would agree with you but your suggested points system is sheer nonsense. 128-1 that would really make you fight for 8th place.....Winning shall be worth more, e.g. 12 points instead of 10 to the winner would be ok, but winning cant be everything, if you have 10 teams with 2 cars all trying their best.

CHEERS!

My preferred system is, driver with most wins is the champion. All other placings gives you zero points.

Tie-breaker would be times finished second, if still tied the 3rd place finishes.

It should be about winning and nothing else.

We sued to have the first 6 postions give you points, that would then per "my" system be:

1 - 32 points
2 - 16 points
3 - 8 points
4 - 4 points
5 - 2 points
1 - 1 point

I want that it makes a huge difference where you finish the race. So double up, by moving up one position.

I care little for the crusing for points idea, I want all drivers to go for the win at all races.

No team or driver should show at a race without the intent to win. That include Minardi and Albers. I agree that no team or driver should show at a race with the expectation to win.

We have been mislead by the media before, but Mark Webber was quoted yesterday as saying that he could not win Monaco, if this is a true quote then he should be fired.

In an other thread I am advancing my ideas for creating more overtaking, basically I want all moves for position to happen on the track - so ban refueling and changing of tires - And make it very worthwhile gaining position.

F1greyhound · Post by **F1greyhound** » Fri May 20, 2005 8:53 pm

You would definitely increase Michaels chances.....

As for Mark, not exactly understandable, actually I would not have ruled him out at all

K-D · Post by **K-D** » Fri May 20, 2005 10:28 pm

K-D wrote:
sgd wrote:I didn't like The Quali-flyer...

too arrogant - K-D style.

saying that be mediocre and consistent is the same is !!

Of course I agree with a lot of this article, many things just obviuos.
nothing new, as i said, arrogant and only talk about the drivers he like or specially un-like.
How is that different fomr you and me?? (and I di realise I was already placed in his bracket)

Back in serious mode, let me explain what I mean.

The Quali-Flyer or I are tagged as arrogant, and his article is brushed of as being many obvious things, giving us nothing new, and only giving his personal view and opinion on what helices and what he does not like.

My question is.

How is sgd different than us?? Does he claim that all he post is open, factual and free of emotions??

The Qualiflyer · Post by **The Qualiflyer** » Sun May 22, 2005 2:38 am

sgd wrote:

I didn't like The Quali-flyer...

too arrogant - K-D style.

saying that be mediocre and consistent is the same is........

sgd, Arrogant, yeah, perhaps but that?s the joy of having your own soapbox - you don't have to listen to the feeble rantings from the footpath. I suppose you are saying that Toyota?s performance compared to the Renault?s is exemplary? Nope ? When the points system was changed it was to bring the rest of the field, who were all mediocre, up to the red cars and to scuttle Michael?s chances of yet another title. That effort of not rewarding wins still impacts today. Two years ago Kimi was challenging for the title with one win !! that?s not what F1 as I loved it was all about. I suppose by your reckoning Minardi?s should score points too? After all they are more consistent than any other team.

Trulli has done wonders this year but the Toyota is too slow to be a real contender and a points system that allows 3rd to trail a win by only 4 points is not a real system as far as I am concerned. The points system and qualifying were both ok ? they were just victims of Max and Bernies efforts to fix what weren?t broke. I see nothing wrong with the 10-6-4-3-2-1 scoring of old.

While I?m on your response sgd, interesting that I?m saying Ralf is performing OK this year when he?s a driver I admit to ?specially un-liking?.

F1 greyhound ? Ralf is doing pretty well this year in a car that is not as competitive as the Williams was. He?s closer to Trulli than the points are showing and I?m fairly impressed so far. I don?t doubt that BAR will get some points and may even win a race or two this season. My comments were directed at the comments passed by Button that he would have won in Spain. Kimi had that race in the history books before he started the engine. The BAR might be good and Button is good but Spain belonged to Kimi and nothing short of a rocket propelled grenade was going to take it off him. Juan Pablo didn?t get a mention in my article because it would not have been fair to him. He was at a disadvantage in Spain and I question whether he is fully fit even now. I?ll reserve judgment on his performance against Kimi until later in the season. Having said that I don?t believe he will get the better of the Finn. On a good day JPM is as good as any, he?s just not quite as driven as Kimi.

KD - Points for the first 8 is crazy when you only have 16 cars plus a couple of Minardis and Jordans running around. Two points is not enough to risk losing a sure second place for so there isn?t the incentive to win. I don?t think we need to create a system that you need a calculator to track though. The old system worked ? end of story.

My essays are not about unemotional facts and figures and if you want ?new? read the breaking news not articles designed to cover a period of the season. There are plenty of sources for news and facts. I?m here to tell it like I see it and if the sgd?s of this world disagree then I?ve started a dialogue and that keeps me happy (and I?m the only one that counts!).

It seems that (yet again) we are to have a new qualifying system. Back to playing with the rules instead of fixing them. Going back to a single lap on Saturday is like putting a dirty kid into clean clothes, a slight improvement but hardly worth the effort.[/b]

K-D · Post by **K-D** » Sun May 22, 2005 4:11 am

I agree that 8 points paying positions are ludicrous (seppling), my preferred poinst system prior Monaco would have the points standing at:

FA - 3
KR - 1
GF - 1

Rest of field - 0

I would only be counting wins. And most times can do so without a calculator.

sgd · Post by **sgd** » Mon May 23, 2005 2:32 am

I just want to put some responses...

The Qualiflyer wrote:sgd, Arrogant, yeah, perhaps but that’s the joy of having your own soapbox - you don't have to listen to the feeble rantings from the footpath.

yeah! that's true... =) I just put down my montary reaction to your article. your style is your style... (what I said doesn't mean i won't read you again!

, ao i'll be comment on your soapbox.... =)

The Qualiflyer wrote:I suppose you are saying that Toyota’s performance compared to the Renault’s is exemplary?

No!! this is about the consistency, that you put in same terms with mediocrity. I meant not Toyota bau Renault in deed. you criticizes the point system (which i don't like neither (!!) ) saing that it prices mediocrity and "will ensure that Alonso will hold the box seat for this season, barring some extraordinary circumstances" all Alonso have to do is to be consistent, and that is not easy he won 3 races in a row and if he keep podiums going I just can't see how is this mediocre.

The Qualiflyer wrote:I suppose by your reckoning Minardi’s should score points too? After all they are more consistent than any other team.

take a look at the Toyota powered teams both more consistent then Minardi!!!!

The Qualiflyer wrote:I see nothing wrong with the 10-6-4-3-2-1 scoring of old.

As i said i, as you, neither like the new score system. the old one is better. what do you thinka about this one?:
100-60-40-30-20-10-6-4-3-2-1
in fact is the same (to the old you like) for the top 6 but it would but extra spice for the next 5 positions!!!!

The Qualiflyer wrote: While I’m on your response sgd, interesting that I’m saying Ralf is performing OK this year when he’s a driver I admit to ‘specially un-liking’.

Yeah, i noticed that. Trulli has been a good teammate for him!

--
I think your being to hard with DC saing that he "has performed like the journeyman he is" . I think this year he has performed pretty... tell me what did you thought about DC standings on the WDC after Spain... (the same as MS!!??) (10 pts!!??) beside the points which could don't say all the truth, i think that in fact he's done a great job.

The Qualiflyer wrote:My essays are not about unemotional facts and figures and if you want ‘new’ read the breaking news not articles designed to cover a period of the season. There are plenty of sources for news and facts. I’m here to tell it like I see it and if the sgd’s of this world disagree then I’ve started a dialogue and that keeps me happy (and I’m the only one that counts!).

Wait a sec. I didn't mean new stories or breaking news... I meant new arguments or new data on why are your like as they are....

The Qualiflyer wrote:It seems that (yet again) we are to have a new qualifying system. Back to playing with the rules instead of fixing them. Going back to a single lap on Saturday is like putting a dirty kid into clean clothes, a slight improvement but hardly worth the effort.

100% agree!!!

Cheers!!