New Qualifying Poll...

gmcg28c · Post by **gmcg28c** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:55 am

The Official F1 qualifing Survey.

http://www.formula1.com/news/3312.html

Does anyone like any of the proposals in this poll?

I have to say that I don't.

proposal 1 is in my opinion is the better of the two. but remember this is elite level of competition and to have as many cracks at it as one wishes deminishes the sporting aspect in my view. compare the Olympic Games and the attention it can summon worldwide, why? because it is held only once every 4 years, one chance, and best man/woman on the day, the prospect of an upset. no 2nd chances, no 'best out of three' etc. no looking forward to next round in a fortnights time.

I essentially like the 'one-lap-dash' concept, however it still needs tweeking. perhaps run a session like proposal 1 in replace of the last practice session, then run the lap dash qualifier with the top 50% qualifiers from that previous session. this is more media and spectator friendly. if the session is declared disrupted by rain etc. then they can fall back on the times in the previous open session. refueling permited while cars are in parc femme.

The Official F1 website need a feedback page which there is currently none. but how do you tell them this when the don't have a feedback page or contact us link.

sgd · Post by **sgd** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:43 am

Which one do you prefer?? Why?

Proposal 1
Proposal 2
Current
no preference

(see http://www.formula1.com/news/3312.html for details)

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:57 am

V8 supercar qualifying works for me.

Ed · Post by Ed » Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:19 pm

These are the proposals as they appear on the official F1 website.

Proposal 1:
- 60-minute session, split into two 25-minute ?halves? with a 10-minute break.
- drivers may run as many laps as they wish, but must set a time in each half.
- each driver?s best times from the first half is added to his best time from the second half to produce a final time to determine the grid.
- no fuel restrictions - cars may refuel during and after the session.

Proposal 2:
- 60-minute session.
- after 15 minutes, the five slowest cars must retire from the session and will qualify 16th to 20th on the grid.
- after a further 15 minutes, the five cars slowest during that period (times cannot be carried over from the first 15 minutes) must also retire from the session. They will qualify 11th to 15th on the grid.
- for the final 30 minutes the remaining 10 cars will compete for first to tenth place on the grid, based on the best times set in that period (times cannot be carried over from the first 30 minutes).
- drivers may run as many laps as they wish in each period.
- no fuel restrictions - cars may refuel during and after the session.

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:32 pm

Ed wrote:These are the proposals as they appear on the official F1 website.

Proposal 1:
- 60-minute session, split into two 25-minute ?halves? with a 10-minute break.
- drivers may run as many laps as they wish, but must set a time in each half.
- each driver?s best times from the first half is added to his best time from the second half to produce a final time to determine the grid.
- no fuel restrictions - cars may refuel during and after the session.

Proposal 2:
- 60-minute session.
- after 15 minutes, the five slowest cars must retire from the session and will qualify 16th to 20th on the grid.
- after a further 15 minutes, the five cars slowest during that period (times cannot be carried over from the first 15 minutes) must also retire from the session. They will qualify 11th to 15th on the grid.
- for the final 30 minutes the remaining 10 cars will compete for first to tenth place on the grid, based on the best times set in that period (times cannot be carried over from the first 30 minutes).
- drivers may run as many laps as they wish in each period.
- no fuel restrictions - cars may refuel during and after the session.

Perceived problems
Proposal 1. could be weather affected, and could result in a "Melbourne" situation.
I am against aggregate times of any sort.
Proposal 2.
Benefits the top teams even more. More track time for them, less for the minor teams.
With either:
Can set ups be altered after qualifying?
What restrictions do apply?

mlittle · Post by **mlittle** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:36 pm

Speaking from a north american perspective, this is what the F1 qualifying format should be...

--on Saturdays, after the two practice sessions, list the racers based on practice times(slowest-to-fastest)
--each driver in line gets one flying lap around the course(w/cars in race trim and full fuel loads)
--after each driver makes their run, take the top 6 drivers and, after a 15-minute break, let them go back out for a 20-min. "shootout" w/the top 6 spots on the grid determined by the shootout(P7 and slower based on qualifiyng times)

The above format's a cross between the current Formula 1 qual. rules(following the European GP) and the IndyCar Series non-oval qual. format(i.e. the shootout).

Byron Forbes · Post by **Byron Forbes** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:11 pm

I personally like qualifying exactly the way it is right now.

The main change I'd like to see is the use of test cars in the practice sessions and/or the use of non race engines for the prac sessions. I see no need for the "1 engine for 2 races" rule being enforced outside of qual and the race itself. Practice sessions are greatly underused presently for the sake of saving engines. They could just about scrap Friday altogether atm.

Once again I find myself having no time for any of the FIA proposals!

Ed · Post by Ed » Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:27 pm

Julian, I agree that aggregate times cause confusion and the 'Melbourne situation' can be repeated

I also prefer a limit on the number of laps allowed. An unlimited number of laps increases traffic dramatically and can be used by teams to 'slow' other drivers.

I would lean towards the second proposal but with a limit on the number of laps.

Byron, this isn't an FIA initiative. These proposals appear on the official F1 site (owned by Formula One Management) and they are presented as suggestions that have come up by the Formula 1 teams. At this stage they are not official proposals

The main objection of the current single-lap qualifying is that is doesn't offer a close comparison between the drivers and their cars (like the old 12 lap qualifying). That is because cars go out at different times when track conditions can and most of the time are different plus they qualify on race fuel. The latter can be eliminated but the first can't and hence the continuous changing on the single lap qualifying.
Keep in mind that single lap qualifying was introduced to give a fair TV coverage for all teams so that the smaller teams can attract new sponsors and that hasn't really been successful.
Of course the old 12 lap qualifying had a build up effect and that is also missing from the current format.

Byron Forbes · Post by **Byron Forbes** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:56 pm

How about this? -

A 1 hour session, as many laps as you like.
You may not change tyres.
When you set a lap, you pit and the car must not be changed b4 the race. You may, however, decide to refuel (or not) and do another lap, but since the car will have a different fuel load, your last attempt, even if slower than previous ones, will be your qual time.

This also allows a driver to do a few laps to get proper heat into the tyres also if he wishes.

The Qualiflyer · Post by **The Qualiflyer** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 5:27 pm

Personally - 'Real Races' weren't broke and shouldn't have been 'fixed'.

These two suggestions? A pox on both their houses. If these are the only choices then either are better than the current crap. By elimination I would (and did) go with box number 2 as the lesser of 2 evils.

Byron Forbes · Post by **Byron Forbes** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 5:39 pm

I voted to stick with current. The only issue here is the changing conditions. Maybe just qual immediately after prac 2?

Option 1 - why a 10 min break and why add times? Where do they get these ideas?
Option 2 - just a mess.

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 5:50 pm

The Qualiflyer wrote:Personally - 'Real Races' weren't broke and shouldn't have been 'fixed'.

These two suggestions? A pox on both their houses. If these are the only choices then either are better than the current crap. By elimination I would (and did) go with box number 2 as the lesser of 2 evils.

I concur

sgd · Post by **sgd** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:21 pm

We've got the opportunity to have a say... of course it's impossible to make everybody happy, and maybe those 2 options are not the best you can imagine. but the important here (I think) is that we have an opportunity to be not only spectators but also be part of the decision process... if one of the options have a clear win they'd be 'forced' to run it...

Why i don't like current? because of how a driver is penalised by a mechanical failure, he not only DNF the current race but also have to qualify in a green track... too harsh... But the mos important I don't like the current format because it's not real qualifying: you could see Ralf Qing better then Trulli just because he has lot less fuel... Real qualifying must be in equal conditions, right on the limit of the car, on the limit of the driver, must be the fastest laps a car/driver can do... this can be achieved only by a low-fuel Q...

so.... I voted for the 2nd, it will be nice to see those last 15 minutes!!!

in fact (imo) it'd be very interesting from the very beggining... pretty nice action... although 15 minutes it's a lot of time to make 1 flyer, the fact that it's unlimited will put action from the beginning...

someone said that the unlimited factor could be used by some to slow other cars... in the last 15 minutes there will be only 5 cars out there... quite low traffic...

the first 15 mins will be Minardi/Midland + 1(who?) out...
then maybe Sauber/ReBull?/Willimas?/ out...
then Ferrari/Toyota/BAR/Willimas?
then we'd see FA vs GF vs KR vs JPM vs Trulli?MS?JB?MW? fighting for a whole 15 minutes for the pole in low fuel!!!!!!!!!!!!
NICE!!! (at leats i like it

)

K-D · Post by **K-D** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 10:12 pm

I would like.

One lap qualifying on qualifying fuel level. After qualifying, change tires and refuel.

Tires have to be the the same specification as the race tire, but they can chose to scrub it in during practise if they want to.

The engine must be the race engine, but they can change as many engines as they want over a meeting, without any penalties.

If the choise was between the two suggestions, I would go with 2) as the least bad option.

sgd · Post by **sgd** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 11:06 pm

K-D wrote:If the choise was between the two suggestions, I would go with 2) as the least bad option.

and between the two suggestions and the current?
did you already voted at http://www.formula1.com/news/3312.html ??

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